Community & Human Services Cte Minutes 09-07-1988 MINUTES
• '� Community and Human Services Committee "
September 7, 1988
1:00 P.M.
Council Chambers
The meeting was called to order by Janice Rettman, Chair, at 1:00 p.m.
The following were in attendance: Janice Rettman, Ch2.ir; Bob Long, Councilmember;
Bill Wilson, councilmember; Roger Goswitz, Councilme�ber; Jane McPeak, City Attorney's
Office; Phil Byrne, City Attorney's Office (late); Joe Collins, Legislative Aide (late);
Jim Murphy, Program Analyst; and Barbara Benson, Secretary.
The first item concerned City Council Agenda 8/16/88, Item No. 26: Resolution - 88-1346 -
Authorizing the proper city officials to approve and support the current version of
rules and regulations which govern the health and safety of children in day care
centers. Jim Murphy explained that this resolution is for the support and approval of
the second edition of the Proposed Day Care Rules and Regulations. These rules and
regulations were revised in April, 1988. Rettman explained this will be the adoption
of guidelines we have already set at this Committee. Kathy Tarnowski, Community Organizer
of District 14, addressed the Committee, stating she has been working with a group to
establish a drop-off babysitting program at Groveland Recreation Center. She noted
problems with handicapped accessibilitg and hand sink requirements. Irene 0'Ryan, Public
Health Nurse Sueprvisor of the Division of Public Health, stated that she, as supervisor
of the day care inspection program, would be happy to address any issues that groups
would have in any of the inspection areas. Bill Wilson made a motion that this resolution
• be recommended for adoption. This passed on a 3-0 vote.
The next item concerned City Council Agenda 8/16/88, Item No. 27: Resolution - 88-1347 -
Adopting the Child Care Policy for the City of Saint Paul. This resolution is based on
the recommendations in the Child Care in St. Paul Report and Recommendations of the
St. Paul Child Care Task Force. Jerry Serfling, Representative of AFS'EME Council No. 14,
is concerned that this be mutually agreeable to both parties, labor and management; if
this is not mutually agreeable, it should be negotiated. At this point, Bob Long applauded
Mary Hayes' efforts on apprising Mary Ann Hecht of union concerns in this matter.
Dave Allen, Executive Director of Resources for Child Caring, spoke in favor of the
policy, noting that it will affect the entire community. He stated the key factors needing
to be addressed are: 1) Care must be high quality; 2) A diverse system with a number of
different types of child care; 3) Equal access to quality care at affordable prices for
all of the children and families without income being a barrier. Bill Wilson voiced his
feeling that we need to have language that gives a little more flexibility. Rettman
noted there is a reference made in the Mayor's budget to include a day care referral
position. Allen said he would fully support the concept of a child coordinator but would
have some concerns about the word "referral". Bob Hammer, Grants Manager in Grants
Management Section of P.E.D., discussed CDBG funds and "trust funds", noting it is possible
to use CDBG funds for child care, although not in the manner the Council is suggesting in
this resolution. Suggestions were made for formulation of a task force. Kathy Stack,
Director of Community Services, observed that she would like to be involved in this
process, in addition to other Community Services' staff involvement. She stated that
Community Services, P.E.D., and Chris Park are attempting ta set some priorities.
Rettman suggested that Irene 0'Ryan, Bob Ha�ner, and Jim Murphy will work together on
• this, with input from Jerry Serfling with AFSCME's concerns. She added this task force
will begin working on issues immediately. Kathy Stack will begin preparing material,
also, with language which could be part of the package, of what she sees as workable.
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Community and Human Services Committee
September 7, 1988 •
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Rettman observed that hopefully information will be compiled in the next week or
week and three days, with the inclusion of a resolution (with Murphy's input).
Dolores Dinzeo, Program Director for Wilder Child Care, thanked the Committee for
making the commitment to child care, indicating her excitement that they are looking
at neighborhood child care initiatives. She discussed a program that is currently
being implemented in a Frogtown neighborhood. Irene 0'Ryan noted the number of
vancancies currently existing in day care centers for financial reasons. She stated
that inspection aspects should also be included. Rettman stated that the discussion
will continue on September 21, 1988, at which time some amendments will be ready so
that Committee members, Council Members, staff, etc., could receive copies. Rettman
added that she appreciated everyone's attendance and participation. A last comment
was voiced by Wilson; that is, the lack of benefits in conjunction with child care
program workers (e.g., Headstart). Mark Robertson's input will be requested.
The next two items on the agenda were discussed together:
City Council Agenda 8/16/88, Item No. 3: First Reading - 88-1336 - An ordinance amending
Section 410.05 of the Legislative Code prohibiting certain sexual conduct in or viewable
from the licensed premises; and
City Council Agenda 8/16/88, Item No. 4: First Reading - 88-1337 - An ordinance
amending Section 409.09 of the Legislative Code prohibiting certain sexual conduct in •
or viewable from the licensed premises.
Dick Ward, owner of the Payne Reliever, stated there is more nudity on cablevision than
at nude dancing establishments; cablevision is bringing it to the children, the nude
dancing establishments are not. Mary Seymour, of Cochrane and Bresnahan, stated she
is representing the bar owners. She stated that Mr. Wilson made the same proposal in
1987, except for the first section. After extensive public hearings, Mr. Wilson withdrew
the proposed ordinance. She wondered what new evidence has been received since that
time. If additional evidence has been acquired, she requested she be provided• with copies
by the City before this goes any further. She queried: 1) What is the additional new
evidence? 2) May we have copies of the new evidence? 3) She requested to be put on notice
list of the Committee mailing. 4) She apprised the Committee of a recent court case in
Goodhue County regarding constitutionality. Rettman,�in reply.to ��3, answered that Seymour
will be placed on the mailing list as of now. Bill Wilson discussed the specificity of
obscene performance and explicit sexual conduct. The "burden of proof" was discussed.
Dick Ward stated that if obscene activities were going on in his club, he would see that.
it was stopped. He added that he does not feel what he has in his club is obscene.
Wilson noted that Phil Byrne has signed off on these ordinances, and he is thus guided
in this instance by the City Attorney's decision of appropriateness of the ordinances.
Wilson added that additional research is being done by the City Attorney's office and
will be forthcoming--and will be available by the third reading. Wilson moved approval
of the two ordinances. Roger Goswitz discussed Section 410.05 and the terminology of
intoxicating liquor and non-intoxicating liquor. Jane McPeak suggested that on line
4, Section 1 of this ordinance, "non-intoxicating liquor" could be inserted and "alcoholic
beverages" could be struck. It was agreed this would be a friendly amendment. Long
noted his concerns regarding the additional information awaited, and stated he was hesita�
to vote unless he was apprised of it. McPeak stated it would be appropriate to vote
against it, but it can be reflected that when it comes out of Committee it is not
necessarily a no vote. Dick Ward voiced his concerns about the constitutionality of
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Community and Human Services Committee__
• September 7, 1988
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the ordinances. He stated if the matter was pushed, it could be challenged in Court
and then maybe even the glass wall would be unnecessary. Seymour stated if evidence
is not going to be presented until third reading, she would not have time to review it
before a public hearing was set. She requested that her clients be given a reasonable
amount of time to respond. Rettman answered that the information would be available.
Ex parte was discussed. McPeak observed that Seymour would have the same chance to
discuss the matter with Long as Byrne does. McPeak added that any Council Members
wishing to discuss the matter with Seymour may do so. Seymour addressed the issue
of constitutionality, also. The vote was then taken. With Wilson's original motion
to approve both ordinances on the floor, the ordinance amending Section 410.05 of the
Legislative Code was recommended for approval, on a 3-1 vote (Bob Long's no vote was
a vote of indecision at this time) with a friendly amendment (strike "alcoholic
beverages"; insert "non-intoxicating liquor" in Section 1, fourth line). The ordinance
amending Section 409.09 of the Legislative Code was recommended for approval, on a
3-1 vote (Bob Long`s no vote was a vote of indecision at this time).
The next item concerned City Council Agenda 8/16/88, Item No. 23: Resolution - 88-1343 -
Affirming the City Council's intent to conduct a Community Standards Survey and
directing the Mayor to execute the appropriate fund transfer. On January 7, 1988, the
City Council approved a resolution, CF-88-31, which accepts the Council Research
• Department and City Attorney's Office recommendation to conduct a survey to find the
contemporary community standards relative to obscenity. It also directs the appropriate
City Department to select an individual or firm to conduct this survey. The firm
Minnesota Opinion Research, Inc. (MORI, Inc.) has been selected. The cost of contracting
out with this firm is $29,800. The Mayor was opposed to this resolution. He feels a
survey may not be valid evidence in a trial. Also, he feels that because community
standards are continuously changing, this survey may be lacking in qua"lity; he thus
feels it would be unwise to dedicate $29,800 to a survey. However, if the Council makes
a decision that this survey should be done, the Mayor will support it. Long mentioned
that he was awaiting input in this matter from Jerry Hendrickson, of the City Attorney's
office. Rettman, noting that she was unaware of Hendrickson's involvement in''this
issue, stated that the matter would thus be laid over to September 21, 1988, but asked
whether anyone was present to address the issue, wishing to do so today in lieu of the
September 21st date. Chris McGrath introduced herself as president of Minnesota Opinion
Research, Inc. She stated a representative sampling of citizens is necessary, that it
is very important to have the typical citizen of Saint Paul and Ramsey County respond.
She stressed that attitudes are extremely stable over time. Richard Neumeister also
addressed the issue, indicating his opposition, indicating he will consistently oppose.
Rettman reiterated that the issue would be laid over to September 21, and anyone wishing
to address the issue at that time may do so.
The last item on the agenda, the Sexual Harassment Policy, was laid over because of
insufficient time. This will be rescheduled at a convenient Committee time.
Bob Long made a motion that the meeting be adjourned. This was passed unanimously 3-0.
The meeting adjourned at 4:00 p.m.
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