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oger J. switz. Cha'r
MINUTES OF PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE
June 8, 1988 - Room 707 City Hall
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PRESENT: Roger J. Goswitz, Chair
Councilperson Tom Dimond
Councilperson Janice Rettman
OTHERS PRESENT: Peter White, R. M. Connors, John Saumweber, Dick McCann,
Bruce Hoheisel, Karen Swenson, Don Rutman. Charles Bans, Bob
Simon, Donna Datsko, Mae Syivester, Nancy West, Walter
Johanson, Ronnie Brooks, Peter Bruce, Tom Mogren, Dan Dunford.
Rick Person, Chris Nicosia, John McCormick, Councilperson Bob
Long.
1. The minutes of May 25. 1988 were approved as submitted.
2. VACATION: Petition of the H.R.A. and West Bridge Townhomes
Association for the vacation of an encroachment into an easement in
vacated DELOS STREET.
• Dick McCann, Valuations Division, stated this is more or less a
housekeeping matter. The vacation is for an encroachment into a
street easement. All utility companies have responded and are in
favor of the vacation. No one appeared.
MOTION: by Counciimember Dimond to recommend approval was
unanimously carried.
3. F1NAL ORDER: Condemning and taking a 55-foot permanent sewer
easement between the easterly line of LAFAYETTE AVENUE and the
Westerly line of the permanent easement taken for Trout Brook Sewer
construction. Also, the north line of said permanent easement being
the north line of BRUNO STREET as platted and its easterly extension
subject to easements of record and existing structures for the
purpose of constructing and maintaining a public sewer on, under and
across Bruno Street. (In connection with the Trout Brook Outlet
Easement Phase B Pro.iect).
Peter White, Valuations Oivision, explained this is an expansion of
an existing easement. It is located at the intersection of
Lafayette and University by the Public Works storage yard. The two
property owners involved are the Port Authority and the City. No
one appeared.
MOTION: by Councilmember Dimond to recortmend approval was
• unanimously carried.
4. RESOLUTION: To enter into an agreement between Minnesota Department
of Transportation (MNDOT) and City of St. Paul to share construction
costs for PAYNE/ARCADE EAST SEWER SEPARATION PROJECT.
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Chris Nicosia, Department of Public Works, said the resolution has •
been held up untii egreement was reached with MnDOT to share a
greater part of the total cost of this pro,ject. MnOot has now
agreed to pay 16�. ($187,444.03) of the $1�163,162.95 totai cost.
which gives the City an additional $1,825.00.
�. Councilmember Rettman asked when the budget amendment would be
before the Council so that they know what code this money wili be
going into, and said she would like to see both actions at the same
time. Mr. Nicosia said he did not have the answer to that question
but expected Dan Dunford from Public Works who should be arriving
soon would have the answer. lt was requested that this information
be made available for the pubtic hearing date. �
MOTION: by Councilmember Dimond to recortmend approval was
unanimously carried.
5. RATIFICATION OF ASSESSMENTS: For the installation of a sanitary
sewer in FORESTER STREET from Canton Street to Bay Street. (Laid
over from Mav 25, 1988).
Chris Nicosia, Public Works Dept., explained this is the area where
rock was encountered and as a result turned out to be a very
expensive job. At the last meeting homeowners camplained that after
having the sewer installed at great expense they could not even get •
a contractor to hook the sewer up to their homes. The matter was
laid over for two weeks to see what could be worked out.
In order to solve this probtem, he continued, some type of
financing package will have to be put together and it wiil be
necessary to have all the homeowners involved. We will a)so have
to get a contractor interested in bidding the Job. A couple
contractors said they were interested, and Ms. Mergens, spokesperson
for the area, has advised there is consensus of the people if an
affordable financial package is made available to them. Another two
week layover is necessary to work on the funding or some type of
loan or grant. No one appeared.
MOTION: by Councilperson Dimond to lay this matter over for another
two weeks to June 22. 1988 was unanimously carried.
6. FINAL ORDER: Installation of the WABASHA STREETSCAPE 1MPROVEMENT
PLAN on Wabasha from Kellogg Blvd. to Ilth Street and on 5th and 6th
Streets from Wabasha to St. Peter Street. lmprovements to include
the following: New decorative lighting to accomnodate banners,
flower baskets and other special trims; information kiosks
containing lists of stores and events, maps, telephones, news boxes
and trash receptacles. (Laid over from Mav 25, 1988).
Don Rutman, ,Rogers Jewelers, said after the last meeting the •
lighting was again discussed with their design group. lighting
engineers, and more importantly with the merchants and building
owners. The conclusion reached was we still want to stay with the
� single."globe concept. lt is real important for you to understand,
he continued. that for the first time in years there has been
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• unanimous approval of the building owners/retailers atong the street
because it is important for our future development. We are
concerned if the momentum is stopped and we get bogged down over
the issue of triple vs. single globes, it might siow down the whole
pro,ject and hurt our downtown area. We request your approval for
the single globes, he concluded.
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Bob Simon. PED. pointed out this pro,ject is funded by NPP and CIB
funds. Total project is $320,000 with $120,000 being assessed to
the property owners along Wabasha� 5th. and 6th between St. Peter
and Wabasha. The proposal to change to 3 globe lighting and
removal of the bent straws would cost an additional $133.000. PED
has no recortmendation one way or the other, he added.
Councilmember Dimond then showed slides of various types of lighting
at several locations to show spacing and structure and pointed out
none of these block the view of the storefronts. The single globe
would take 5 structures to a block whereas the 3 or 5 globes need
oniy 4 so the number of lights on the street wouid be drasticaily
reduced as would the clutter. He said he didn't see why three
different light styles should be used and felt that a city policy
should be established setting out what is necessary to provide
adequate lighting for the street. He argued he could see spending
$266,000 if the whole system was replaced, but could not see
• spending that amount of money Just for trim. My position, he
stated, is that we replace the lighting system not in a decorative
manner but with a functional lighting system. Another thing he
said he wanted to point out was that he felt the city should have
more impact on this pro,ject because of the many public properties
involved such as the City Hall, City Hali Annex, the Park, Sc�ience
Museum 8 A�t Center, Public Health Department and PHA.
Mr. Rutman replied that the design group wanted to create an
atmosphere of lighting along the street that would create lighting
for the streets rather than on the stores themselves.
Reference was made to past and future NPP projects and Councilmember
Rettman indicated that normally with those projects the groups have
come up with their own schematics and the City Council doesn't try
to change them because those proposals are pretty much self-
determined. In this case the bent straws would remain and the
decorative lighting would be adding atmosphere and character as well
as adding a little more light. in answer to her question of what
other projects have used this type of funding, Bob Simon named
Highland Village, Lowertown, and Exchange and North Wabasha. None
of these proposais were changed to my knowledge, he said.
Walter Johanson, lndependent Architect for the Wabasha St. ProJect,
said when they first started this project they found it very
• difficult to fully appreciate the different lighting systems, the
design of lighting fixtures, number and even color. so as a group
they chartered a bus and went on a tour last December. Started out
9n Lowertown and ended up in Mpls. It became clear to us that the
5 globe fixtures in Lowertown became a very large element in their
own right. They did tight the street. but because of the lighted
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storefronts and.signs we did not want the light fixture to be the •
main source of light. Slides shown by Mr. Dimond were taken during
the daytime and if they had been taken at night the glow is so great
that is what you would have seen. Mr. Dimond remarked that the
stores are only open two nights a week. so the glare shouldn't
affect them because the lights come on after the stores are closed.
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In answer to the Chair's question, Mike Klassen said the cost of
single vs. triple is estimated to be $133,000 over and above the
project as slated now and would be in lieu of what was proposed.
Single globe would be strictly decorative and we would maintain the
street lighting presently in place. Mr. Klassen continued there are
some pros and cons with both systems. Decorative lights do the most
to enhance the appearance of the street, the others are nice by day
but do tend to be glarey at night. There are advantages from an
operating standpoint with the decorative lights because if they
decide they don't want to operate the system any longer we still
would have the bent straws in place.
Mr. Klassen added he has never worked with a group that was more
involved and more in tune with what they wanted to do. He also
mentioned the bus tour and said their decision was arrived at
through that process. Other groups usually 3ust looked at pictures
or books and made their choice that way. This group really did tF�eir
homework and know this is what they were looking to do. .
Ms. Rettman asked if there was a safety factor with either one and
Mr. Klassen said there was none and it typically becomes a developer
expense. As redevelopment of total block comes in the developer
wants to get tFrese off their buildings and they must pay for it in
fuli, he said.
At this point Chairman Goswitz read into the record the letter from
Council President James Scheibel in support of the DCDC's request.
Councilmember Oimond made a motio� to reptace the lighting system
with the functional lighting. Referring to Mr. Oimond's cortment
that the City is the major property owner in this proJect, Mr. White
stated that out of the $120.000 total assessment about $30,000 is
a5sessed against the city and $90,000 against private properties. He �
also noted there are two public stretches not included because they
either have already been done or will be done later.
When asked by Ms. Rettman where Mr. Dimond proposed to fund the
additional money from, he suggested that CIB money be looked at.
Ms. Rettman then commented that both NPP and CIB committees try very
hard to work with people involved and yet come up with something
that can be for the betterment of the community. Since Mr. Klassen
says there is no safety factor involved and this is what the
downtown people want, she continued, we then become deciders if we •
change their proposal and might be setting a precedent for future
streetscape pro3ects. She stated she would vote against what Mr.
Dimond recommended, and if that motion fails. she was prepared to
make the opposite motion.
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• Mr.Dimond said while it is important for NPP and CIB to have citizen
input, but this is not a CIB or NPP decision whether we put in a
multiple lighting system on a street but is a city-wide policy issue
on how we meet proper lighting standards. It was again pointed out
that if hard times should return and some lights have to be shut off
we wouid stili have the safety feature of the bent straws being in
� place.
ln answer to Mr. Nicosia's question. Mr. Simon said lighting is
scheduted to go in sometime this fall and be compieted in 1988.
Ronnie Brooks, DCDC, then spoke and said this is just a part of what
the business community hopes is a general renovation of Wabasha and
timing is very important. There has been a dedicated effort and
cooperation to move forward with the plans so that the stores on
Wabasha wiil not have to close at 6 o'ciock but begin to stay open
and have our downtown stay alive. Timing is more than 3ust the
installation of lighting coming together, it is people working for
over a year to redesign their storefronts, getting the signage done
and bringing together the community of retailers and business peopie
downtown, which is one of the most important areas to the future of
our city. We hope you will take prompt action and that this will be
before the full council on June 14th, she added.
• To Mr. Dimond's comment that he felt the city was not part of this
design pro,�ect other than support staff, it was pointed out that
Council President Scheibel and/or his Aide, Mae Sylvester have been
involved all along. Peter Bruce, DCDC. added the design group
worked with design staff of PED ail atong the way, as well as Jim
Scheibel's off and did talk to the public property owners so �
there has been public involvement ali the way and the process has
been open to anyone that wanted to be a part of it.
The Chair referred to Mr. Rein's concern about moving the newsstand
from in front of his store and stated Legislative Code Section 128.4
spelis out that the Director of Public Works makes the
determination as to whether the newstand is correctly placed or not,
so Mr. Rein is correct and the stand should be moved from in front
of his store.
MOTION: by Councilmember Dimond to recortmend approval of the
functional lighting. Motion failed on 1-2 vote - Rettman
and Goswitz voting "NO".
MOTION: by Councilmember Rettman to recommend approval of the Final
Order with the attached streetscape proposal in its entirety and
ali the documents attached. Passed on Z-1 vote - Dimond voting
"NO".
• Councilmember Dimond remarked he didn't think this pro,�ect should be
done and to expose the taxpayers to a quarter of a miilion dollars
,�ust to put in decorative lighting on the street is an absolute
crime. The Chair said in his opinion this is money well spent and
Councilmember Rettman commented that there will be numerous other
streetscape projects coming up and they are all trying to attract a
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greater business clientele to enjoy our neighborhoods and city. •
Wabasha has needed this for quite sometime, and besides the business
people will be paying for the system and for maintaining it, so I
don't see it as using taxpayers dollars, I see it as an investment
in our future retail area, she added. Councilmember Dimond said it
is hard to believe that people are not going to shop downtown
w. because we will be using 3 globes instead of one.
7. F1NAL ORDER: The operation of the Above Standard Street Lighting
System for the WABASHA-5TH-6TH AREA for the year 1988 for the
following streets: Both sides of Wabasha Street from Kellogg Blvd.
to Ilth Street; Both sides of 5th Street and 6th Street from St.
Peter Street to Wabasha Street. (Laid over from Mav 25, 1988)
MOTION: by Councilmember Rettman to recommend approval was passed on
2-1 vote - Dimond voting "NO".
8. RESOLUTION - 88-833 - Amending the 1984, 1985 8 1986 Capital
Improvement Budget by adding �205,232.56 to COMO AVENUE OVERLAY-
CAP1TAl HTS. COMO PARK from activities as listed.
Dan Dunford, Public Works committee. explained this project was
completed a couple of years ago. There is a need to increase the
budget by $205.000 and $155.000 of that amount is ,just replacement
of funding that originally was allocated to the project but never •
really got into the budget or was transferred out before the proJect
was terminated. The other $50,000 is an increase for an additionai
block of street added to the project after the budget was approved
and also the CSSP work was ,�ust beginning when this work was started
therefore some storm sewer work was also added. He gave a detailed
account of where this money would be transferred from and said they
are all from projects already compieted that have balances remaining.
MOTION: by Councilmember Rettman to recommend approval was
unanimously carried.
At this point Councilmember Bob Long came to the meeting and asked that
Item #15 be heard so that he could speak on it before going to his next
meeting.
15. ORDINANCE - 88-888 - Amending Chapter 160 of the Legislative Code
pertainina to parkinq meter zones.
Councilmember Long stated that Chris Park was working with the
Mayor's Office to amend the parking meter zones ordinance, page 2,
to allow for some speciai designation of parking meters, primarily
in the downtown area to help solve a problem at some of the downtown
child care centers. People coming after work to pick up their
children are finding it difficult to park anywhere near the center
so we are looking at having the Director of Public Works extend •
enforcement hours on certain meters to give these people more
accessibility to these meters. ,
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• Councilrnember Rettman asked if this had gone through the District
Councils and the business people and said she would have a problem
supporting this absent those things. Chris Park stated this
ordinance gives the ability to broaden the ordinance which came from
a need of a specific child care provider, Kinderhaus Care in the
Degree of Honor Building. Al1 the ordinance does say in special
�. circumstances we will allow there to be an extension of enforcement
hours. This was discussed very thoroughly with Kinderhaus and alt we
are talking about is 3 meters. Ms. Rettman said she was concerned
about just how much public knowledge there is that this would be
changed. If it just said for day care needs, she wouldn't be so
concerned. She also asked about enforcement. Chris Parks said they
intend to have enforcement people there. Counciimer�er Long said he
wouldn't have a problem with authority for approval being given to
the Director of Public Works and City Council nor specificaily
limiting it to day care centers.
John McCormick, City Attorney's Office, noted there may be some
concern about limiting this to certain businesses or groups and
suggested this be looked at by Jerry Segal It may be, he said, you
might want to do this on a case by case basis. Further discussion
followed.
MOTION: by Councilmember Dimond to recommend approval with amendment
• to limit it to day care facilities in the downtown district
was unanimously carried.
McCormick will refer this to to Jerry Segai for review.
9. ORDINANCE -88-827 - Amending Chapte� 87 of the Legislative Code
pertaininq to the Water Code and Water Service Connections.
Tom hogren. General Manager of the Water Department, said he would
like to explain why this matter is before the Cortxnittee and what it
is the Board of Water Commissioners would like to accor�lish.
Councilmember Dimond stated this policy should not be just for
replacement of undersized pipes, but for replacement of all lead
piping when construction pro,jects are being done. I think it should
be a requirement because they are dangerous, he said.
Mr. Mogren explained prior to 1926 the best availabie material for
water service connections was lead piping and it was the standard of
the industry then, but since that time copper has become the best
available material for residential connections. Much of St. Paul,
he continued, was developed prior to 1926. We currently have 20,000
5/8" wide lead connections, some 3/4 and 1" pipes and even about
� 500 1/2" pipes, fo� a total of approximately 28,000 lead water
service connections. There is no health hazard to the people of St.
• Paul because of the usage of lead pipes and I can say that on the
best information of health experts and the EPA. Our utilities are
very carefully monitored and the quality of water checked to assure
there is no lead picked up from the pipes in the water delivered to
our customers. We do not have a problem here, he continued. and to
spend $20 Million to replace all lead piping would not be warranted.
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• There are problems in other parts of the country, but St. Paul does
not have a problem. This ordinance gives the opportunity to those
people who want a higher level of service.
John McCormick, City Attorney's Office, point out absent any clear, ".
provable health risk, the City would have a difficuit time demanding
�, replacement of lead connections from the house into the street.
Councilmember Dimond remarked if you are willing to replace 20,000
pipes, why not 28,000 and added we are just talking about this when
there is major construction work going on. Apparently the Water
Department doesn't share the federal government's concern that lead
pipes present a potential serious health hazard. When streets are
ripped up, that is the time to replace all lead pipes, he said.
Mr. Mogren said he hoped this ordinance goes through because it is
good for the City of St. Paul. Letters sent out to people in
construction areas indicate there are very few people out there
expressing the need to upgrade their service, and they are saying
they are satisfied with the level of their water service. There is
no logic to repiace 20,000 pipes absent evidence of a health hazard
and when people are satisfied with their 5/8" pipes.
MOT10N: by Councilmember Rettman to recortmend approval. Mr. Dimond
asked to make an amendment to her motion.
,• MOTION: by Councilmember Dimond to amend motion to replace 28,000
pipes when doing major construction work. Defeated on 1-2
Vote - Goswitz and Rettman voting "NO".
MOTION: By Councilmember Rettman to recommend approval was
unanimously carried.
Item #8 - Dan Dunford asked to speak on this item again.
In regard to this Resolution, Mr. Dunford said, an amendment is
needed because we found that the funds in the Prescott/Baker project
had already been used on another project. Two other sources of
funding were found to make up for the $38,000 needed. $19,000 will
come from '84 CIB Signat Installation project S-6607. and $19,385.54
from the '87 CIB Otis/Eustis Project 5-1307.
Councilmember Rettman moved for reconsideration.
MOTION: by Councilmember Rettman to recommend approval of the above
amendments was unanimously carried.
Mr. Dunford also mentioned a typo which witl be corrected. The
Suburban-Pederson proJect should read 1985 instead of 1984.
10. REQUEST of Wayne Cardes for consideration of approval of a
• Registered Land Survey to simplify existing legat descriptions for
property located at LONDIN LANE and LOWER AFTON ROAD
It was pointed out that Wayne Cardes is not the owner of property,
but is the land surveyor. The owner's attorney is Charles Bans and
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• there is a conflict on the existing certificate of titte. The '
former owner, L. Okeson, sold the property in 1987 to Hfidur Dunbar
who objected to the title because it showed a road and she wanted a
clean certificate with no mention of the road. The seller was forced
to escrow $10,000 and he is anxious to get this settled. It was .
first thought it had to be platted, but after checking with the city
r, attorney they advised since there is no subdivision involved, no
platting is necessary and approval can be done by a registered tand
survey. This resolution merely redescribes the property as two
parcels, one for the home and one for road.
MOTION: by Councilmember Dimond to recommend approvai was
unanimously carried.
11. RESOLUTION: Recycling contract for 100� funding, $379,542, from
Ramsev Countv.
Rick Person, Public Works Dept., explained this is a continuation of
the existing funding for this program with Ramsey County for six
months and they will probably be back in six months from now to get
approval for the 1989 pro3ect.
Councilmember Rettman said she has no problem with continuing this
but would like to see the budget amendment when we accept the money
. speliing out what fund the money will go into. It would be nice to
have this all tied in together instead of having 3 different
resolutions, she added. It was requested that Greg Blees have this
information available when this matter appears on the Councii
agenda.
MOTION: by Councilmember Rettman to recommend approval was
unanimously carried. �
12. ORDINANCE - 88-891 - Amending the Legislative Code so as to provide
penalties for unlawful removal of materials set out for recycling
collection.
Councilmember Dimond explained he would like to see an appropriate
penalty appiied to this ordinance because some people have seen the
recycling program as an opportunity to let the customers do all the
sorting and they then pick up the valuable cans or whatever is
placed out for recycling, throw it in their truck and head down to
the recycling center. This flies against the efforts people in the
community are making to help the program and it undercuts money that
would have been returned to the program and adds to the burden of
the city. He said he would move this as a misdemeanor.
Councilmember Rettman said she could not support this because most
scavenging is done out of non separated trash. 1 think we have
• better things to do than having our city attorney's office trying to
get someone to testify that they saw someone in the act, find it in
their truck and then get them to testify in court.
This program, Mr. Dimond said, does not have anything to do with
people going through trash cans picking up loose cans. What we want
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• to do is get the people who are stealing the materials put out for
the authorized recycling program. Mr. McCormick said in his opinion
the language is clear.
Discussion followed on what an authorized program is, and does it
include such things as Boy/Girl Scout paper drives. Karen Swenson
N. commented the Solid Waste Task Fo�ce was having some difficulty
understanding that also but when it was made� clear it applied
specifically to the existing curbside program they said that sounded
OK. There is one minor amendment that should be made, she said, and
that is it refers to curbside pick-up only and they do have some
alleyway pick-ups, so that shouid be added.
MOTION: by Councilmember Dimond to recommend approval with the
amendment to include the word "alleyside" was passed on a
2-1 vote - Rettman voting "NO".
13. UPDATE REPORT - from Solid Waste Task Force.
This item was laid over for two weeks because no one had had a
chance to read this report.
14. ORDINANCE - 88-887 - Amending Chapter 126 of the Legislative Code
pertaininq to surfacinq between curb and sidewalk.
• Chris Nicosia, Public Works Department. explained that Kiki Sonnen
had requested this ordinance because of some concern in her area
relative to the boulevard areas. Some cortmercial strips apparently
put blacktop on the boulevard area and some concrete and she wanted
to see as much sod go in as possible. Tom Keefe and Larry Lueth came
up with some wording to make it more clear as to how sod can be
replaced during CSSP projects. In many heavy industrtal areas there
are no sprinkling systems or garden hoses available to water the
sod. This Ordinance pretty well spelis out that it is the discretion
of the Public Works Director and his pevple to decide exactly where
sod ought to be placed as opposed to concrete or blacktop.
This Ordinance had not been signed by a City Attorney and it was
requested that Jerry Segal review it before it goes to Council.
MOTION: by Councilmember Rettman to recommend approval was passed
unanimously.
16. DISCUSSION: Process by which Preliminary Orders/Final
Orders are sent to the Public Works Committee.
Because several committee members had to be at another meeting, this
item was laid over for two weeks.
� Adjourned 11:25 A.M.
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