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Approved Minutes 2-21-1996 SUMMARY MINUTES OF THE SAINT PAUL CITY COUNCIL Wednesday, February 21, 1996 - 3:30 P.M. PUBLIC HEARINGS AT 5:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS, 3RD FLOOR City Hall and Court House 15 West Kellogg Boulevard The meeting was called to order at 3:45 p.m. by Council President Thune. Present - 7 - Councilmembers Blakey, Bostrom, Guerin, Harris, Megard, Rettman, Thune Absent - 0 MISCELLANEOUS 36. Recognition of Nick Mancini for his contributions to the Metropolitan Airports Commission. Mayor Coleman and Fire Chief Tim Fuller recognized Nick Mancini for his five years of service on the Metropolitan Airports Commission. A proclamation was presented proclaiming February 21, 1996, as "Nick Mancini Day." Mr. Mancini responded with a few words of appreciation. Dave Cossetta appeared and expressed his appreciation for Mr. Mancini's contributions to the community. Council President Thune extended thanks and appreciation to Mr. Mancini on behalf of the City Council. Councilmember Guerin moved for suspension of the rules and approval of the following resolution: Resolution - 96-180 - Commending Nick Mancini for his years of service to the City of Saint Paul and thanking him for all of his accomplishments. Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 CONSENT AGENDA Councilmember Rettman requested Item #10, D00842, be laid over one week. Councilmember Rettman moved approval of the Consent Agenda as amended. Roll Call Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 2 FOR ACTION 1. Approval of minutes of October 18, 1995, and February 7, 1996. Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 2. Claims of Mark Arneson, Steve Christensen, Thomas Eilen, Jeffrey Gedatus, Lianne Guenther, Suzanne Nordsving, Francis and Karen Piette, Regina Rippel for Timothy Olson, Reliance Insurance for Alan Smith, Chad Thao, Margaret M. Thill, and Arthur F. Williams Optical. Referred to the City Attorney's Office 3. Summons and Complaint in the matter of Kimberly Flemino vs. the City of Saint Paul, et al. Referred to the City Attorney's Office 4. Summons and Complaint in the matter of Edward Kaisere, Jr., vs. the City of St. Paul, et al. Referred to the City Attorney's Office 5. Letter from the Office of the City Attorney announcing a public hearing before the City Council on February 28, 1996, to consider the report of the Administrative Law Judge concerning adverse action against licenses held by Don Nguyen and Duong Dai Phan's Cafe, dba Cafe Karoke Do Thanh, 1275 University Avenue. 6. Letter from the Office of the City Attorney announcing a public hearing before the City Council on March 6, 1996, concerning adverse action against licenses held by Joseph L. Brost, dba Grand Wheeler Sinclair II, 1345 Grand Avenue. (Uncontested) 7. Letter from the Department of Planning and Economic Development announcing a public hearing before the City Council on February 28, 1996, to consider the application of Steve Scribner to rezone property from B-3 (general business) to R-4 (residential single family) to allow existing commercially used property to be used as a single family dwelling at 1374 Arcade Street. 8. Letters from the Division of Public Health declaring 682 Fuller Avenue and 862 Galtier Street as "nuisance properties." (For notification purposes only; public hearings will be scheduled at a later date if necessary.) 9. Communication from St. Paul Animal Control dated February 12, 1996, announcing a request from the University of Minnesota Research Lab for unclaimed dogs and cats. February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 3 10. Administrative Orders: D00838 Amending the budget in the Department of Planning and Economic Development by establishing a HUD Program training activity within the CDBG Program. D00839 Addition of$3,487 to the contract for air conditioning at Neighborhood House/E1 Rio Vista Recreation Center and Wilder Recreation Center. D00840 Extending the term of Lease Agreement LIB/1, through July 31, 1996, by leasing 300 square feet of office space to H-Marc, aka Hamline-Midway Area Rehabilitation Corporation in the Hamline Branch Library. D00841 Authorizing the Department of Planning and Economic Development to contribute $1,000 to the American Institute of Architects, St. Paul Chapter, for printing a walking tour map. Noted as on file in the City Clerk's Office D00842 Amending the 1995 budget in the Division of Public Health to reflect proper spending authority. Councilmember Rettman moved to layover one week. Laid over to February 28 Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 D00843 Amending the 1996 budget in the Department of Public Works for computer equipment to build electronic time sheets and other computerized efforts for the Payroll Section. D00844 Amending the 1996 budget in the Department of Public Works to transfer spending from Project Planning and Programming to Computer Services for the promotion of an employee. Noted as on file in the City Clerk's Office 11. Resolution - 96-160 - Approving the appointment of Kim Hunter, by Mayor Coleman, to the Bicycle Advisory Board as a Council Ward 4 Representative. (To be laid over one week for adoption) Laid over to February 28 for adoption 12. Resolution - 96-161 - Approving the 1994-1996 Collective Bargaining Agreement between the City of Saint Paul and the International Association of Fire Fighters, AFL-CIO Local 21 and a Letter of Understanding. (To be laid over one week for adoption) Laid over to February 28 for adoption February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 4 13. Resolution - 96-162 - Authorizing the issuance of taxable single family mortgage revenue refunding bonds (Phase I Refunding) and residual interest mortgage revenue bonds (Phase I Residual) jointly by the City of Minneapolis and the Housing and Redevelopment Authority of the City of Saint Paul. Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 14. Resolution - 96-163 - Accepting a grant in the amount of$2,000 from the Minnesota Regional Arts Council to fund the Como Park Artist's Residence After School Arts Program. Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 15. Resolution - 96-164 - Accepting a grant in the amount of$20,000 from the General Mills Foundation to fund the Como Park Artist's Residence After School Arts Program. Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 16. Resolution - 96-165 - Rescinding assessment amount of$1,134.66 to property owner for the Maryland/Dale Area Street Paving and Lighting Project. Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 17. Resolution - 96-166 - Authorizing proper City officials to enter in a Joint Powers Agreement for signal maintenance with the University of Minnesota. Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 18. Resolution - 96-167 - Authorizing proper City officials to sign agreements with the State and the City for the Phalen Wetland Restoration Project, with the University of Minnesota to prepare the preliminary design of the project, and with the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources granting them a conservation easement for the area of the project. Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 ORDINANCES 19. Final Adoption - 95-1338 - An ordinance to repeal Chapter 326 of the Saint Paul Legislative Code relating to licensing building contractors effective March 31, 1996. (Substitute introduced February 14) Councilmember Rettman moved to lay over one week. Laid over to February 28 Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 20. Second Reading - 96-151 - Establishing the position entitled Administrative Assistant as specified by Chapter 12 of the Charter of the City of Saint Paul, Section 12.03.2(H) thereof. Laid over to February 28 for third reading/public hearing February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 5 21. Second Reading - 96-152 - Establishing the position entitled Special Events Coordinator as specified by Chapter 12 of the Charter of the City of Saint Paul, Section 12.03.2(H) thereof. Laid over to February 28 for third reading/public hearing 22. First Reading - 96-168 - Finalizing City Council action taken January 24, 1996, approving a petition of Multi-Clean Inc., (Pet Food Warehouse) to rezone property from P-1 and I-1 to B-2 at 2277 Ford Parkway. Laid over to February 28 for second reading FOR DISCUSSION 23. City Council policy session on hockey at the Civic Center A. Opening remarks (Joe O'Neill, Saint Paul Civic Center Authority Board Chair) B. What are the options for the Civic Center at this juncture and the financial impact of these choices? (Chris Hansen, Saint Paul Civic Center) C. Presentation on arena improvement plans (David Frauenshuh, Frauenshuh Companies) D. Local economic impact of hockey at the Civic Center. (Eileen McMahon, Convention and Visitors Bureau and the Saint Paul Hospitality Association) E. Financing and local economic impact considerations. (Dino Guerin) F. Presentation of Jets bid. (Pam Wheelock, Deputy Mayor) G. Public commentary. H. Council discussion of issues. The following discussion was relevant to the above issues. Mr. Joe O'Neill, Chair of the Saint Paul Civic Center Authority, appeared before the Council. Mr. O'Neill said his responsibility is to make sure Saint Paul has a first rate quality convention center. Mr. O'Neill introduced Chris Hansen, Civic Center executive director. Mr. O'Neill gave a brief history of the Civic Center. The Saint Paul Auditorium was built in the 1930s with seating for 8,000 hockey spectators. In the 1940s and 1950s, Saint Paul had a minor league team, the Saint Paul Saints. In 1945, the first state high school tournament was held in the Auditorium. Fifty years of partnership between the State High School League, the City of Saint Paul, and the Saint Paul Civic Center will be celebrated in 1996. The 1969 Minnesota State Legislature authorized $19 million in bonds for construction of the Civic Center. The arena was built for hockey, opened in 1973, and attracted a World Hockey Association team, the Saint Paul Fighting Saints. February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 6 The Civic Center entered into a lease with the Minnesota Moose, an IHP team, who played from 1994 to 1996. In 1989, the Division One Mens Ice Hockey championship was held at the Civic Center with record attendance. The University of Minnesota and the Saint Paul Civic Center are coming together for their first meeting on Friday, February 23, to jointly bid for the Saint Paul Civic Center to be the host of the NCAA Final Four Ice Hockey Championship in the years 2000, 2001, and 2002. The Saint Paul Auditorium and Civic Center have had a strong tradition as a host to professional, collegiate, and high school hockey throughout the years of its existence. The Saint Paul Civic Center Authority will do their best to implement whatever decision the Saint Paul City Council makes regarding what type of hockey it is interested in obtaining. Executive Director Chris Hansen presented three options: 1) the needed improvements and the costs of the improvements, 2) to seek funding for the improvements and seek franchises, or 3) operate without an anchor tenant. There may not be much rent from a professional franchise. There are other forms of income such as facility surcharges on the tickets, food and beverage income, parking income, ticket rebates, merchandising income, signage and sponsorship income, telephones, coin operating machines, etc. All can add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Also, bars, restaurants, hotels, and gas stations would benefit. There are costs involved such as ice making, maintenance, energy, and cleaning. However, there are also non-financial impacts. A franchise gives the facility a regular schedule of events. This is useful for planning for employment: parking attendants, maintenance, ushers, concession workers. If there is not an anchor tenant, the work available is much more episodic and it is difficult to keep people on staff. Mr. Hansen further stated the Moose filled up 20 Fridays, Saturdays and 13 Sundays. Possible available dates for a franchise at the Civic Center from October 1996 to April 5, 1997 are 98 total days with 51 of these being Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. Councilmember Harris asked for clarification on available dates for a franchise. Mr. Hansen said that an anchor tenant would have first rights for every date with a few exceptions, such as the circus or a major community event that's been occurring for several years. Mr. Hansen stated profits from the Moose were not significant. A franchise coming in will take two or three years to attract the kind of crowds and corporate sponsorship required. Mr. Hansen said that 50-55 arena days would have to be taken out of circulation for an NHL team and seven days would have to be held open in the springtime if the team went to the Stanley Cup. February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 7 Council President Thune asked about jobs in the Civic Center such as ushers, security guards, concession workers and what salaries they would be making. Mr. Hansen responded that about 40 to 45 ushers and ticket takers, six security guards, 4-6 police officers, and 60 concession workers would be required. For a sellout game, 70 to 80 ushers, six to eight police officers, and 70 to 90 concession workers would be required. Ticket takers earn about $6 to $8 an hour; security, $10 to $12; concession workers, $7 to $8. Councilmember Harris asked about leeway in changing parameters on some key issues as part of the negotiations. Mr. Hansen said he had no information on this and indicated it is a closely guarded subject in the NHL. Council President Thune asked how much of a profit the City is looking at. Mr. Hansen answered about 70% profit, 25% to 30% labor and profit maximum. Council President Thune asked how the 70% profit is split. Mr. Hansen responded that 7% is for taxes, leaving 93%. The facility on a reasonable deal would get 45% to 50% of that 93%. The concession company would keep the balance and pay the costs of product and labor. Council President Thune asked how much the franchise gets. Mr. Hansen said that's part of the negotiation. The facility negotiates with the food and beverage companies and then gives the franchise a share. Councilmember Blakey questioned why the Saints and the North Stars were not successful. Mr. O'Neill indicated the reason these teams didn't survive was that there were two competing major league teams paying and pirating teams from the other major league. Mr. O'Neill further stated one positive thing about the IHL is that it has a salary cap. Councilmember Blakey asked if Saint Paul was successful in acquiring a team, how the City would pay for it. If Saint Paul was able to lock a team into a long term contract, the public is worried about being taxed and teams moving as there are no assurances. Mr. O'Neill responded the Vikings are under a 30-year lease. The Twins are also, but they have an escape area. Councilmember Blakey asked if there is ample parking if Saint Paul did acquire a team. Mr. O'Neill said there will be an additional 427 parking spaces underneath the Convention Center. Councilmember Guerin added that there are 3,000 to 4,000 spaces within walking distance, and in 2-1/2 years the Science Museum will have an additional 700 spaces. The parking situation is not ideal, but it is adequate, he said. February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 8 Councilmember Guerin said the NHL teams need more revenue other than ticket sales. The North Stars did not leave due to money issues because they made money here. Councilmember Blakey asked what the purpose would be in acquiring a team; an economic boom to the City or an image issue. Mr. Hansen answered that some would say it was an economic boom and some would say it is an image boom. Also, there are benefits that aren't financial, such as civic pride. President Thune asked for the ticket price difference between the NHL and the IHL. IHL tickets are $6, $8, $6.50, $8.50, $10.50, $14.50, and $20.00. NHL tickets range from $10 to $60 or $70 a game for luxury seats, Hanson said. President Thune questioned whether the Moose would be interested in returning. Mr. O'Neill said he met with Richard Adler, chair of the IHL Expansion Committee. Mr. Adler is not soured on Saint Paul, but some things would have to be done. Also, he would be happy to come to Saint Paul at his expense to speak to the City Council. David Frauenshuh, Frauenshuh Companies, said he met with Council President Thune and was asked what it would take to bring the Civic Center to the level of a pro sports team. The Civic Center now is a Class B Plus facility, but most sports owners would say it's acceptable. Mr. Frauenshuh chose Ellerbe Beckett Architects and Kraus Anderson to work on this project. The two gentlemen who accompanied him are in a group that builds most of the sports facilities around the country. Dexter Marolt, a project manager for Ellerbe Beckett Architects, showed plans of possible renovations that could be made to the Civic Center. The plans include a new entrance on 7th Street, a desire of Civic Center management. Also included are putting in suites and widening the area below the suites because the concourse is too small for the number of people, the restrooms are outdated and undersized, and the concourse area could provide more food concessions. The exit areas would be widened, and the lobby area would get a new box office and team store. The plans include a new elevator lobby for access to the suites. Mr. Frauenshuh added that the walls would have to be moved out for restroom expansion, increased, food capacity, increased traffic, and code requirements. New columns would be put in for a new entrance to the building. Councilmember Harris asked if it would be necessary to move out a wall to build suites. Mr. Frauenshuh reiterated it would allow more room for food opportunities, the restrooms are not adequate, and the building may not pass inspection if the walls are not taken out. February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 9 Councilmember Megard questioned what the revenue does and who gets the money. Mr. Frauenshuh responded that is something the Council would decide. Councilmember Guerin said if Saint Paul wants to pursue a franchise, the Council has been told some things have to be changed. (The meeting was recessed from 5:00 to 5:10 p.m.) (Public hearings and suspension items were taken up at this time; see below) Bill Lester, Executive Director of the Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission, appeared. He said his office put together their thoughts from a public policy standpoint for retaining the current sports and possibly attracting NHL hockey if that's a possibility. The focus of the task force is on baseball and football. Sports is a catalyst for building a community. In 1987 when the Minnesota Twins won the World Championship, it was a community builder for the entire State of Minnesota. He went on to say that football and baseball should be secure first, and then facilitate bringing NHL hockey to Minnesota. The Midwest is a region that hockey would like to be present in, but it needs to be done in a fiscally responsible way. Councilmember Blakey asked about the Green Bay Packers. Mr. Lester said the Packers were grandfathered in. Currently, the league does not allow any type of public ownership. In light of the Saints, Moose, and North Stars leaving, Blakey questioned if Saint Paul can handle another team. Mr. Lester responded that St. Paul was the smallest metropolitan area to host four professional sports and a major university program. There is enough discretionary income, but now Minnesota has gambling which is also competing for that discretionary income. In addition, the team has to put out a great product. There were years when the North Stars had a great product and the Saints had a good product also. Councilmember Harris questioned how the commission works, and how assets are identified. Mr. Lester used the example of the Metrodome stating the Dome pays approximately $4 million for debt service per year, operation costs, and all its own capital improvements without any public tax since 1984. The new policy for arenas is that the public is picking up the debt service on the building, there's no property tax, and the teams retain the revenue stream. The Metrodome is 1970s technology and, like the Civic Center, improvements are necessary. There is a $37 million debt left on the Metrodome. When the Met Center property in Bloomington is sold, the proceeds will go to the Metrodome bonds. Councilmember Blakey commented that sports facilities become outdated very quickly. Mr. Lester responded the move toward food courts, higher quality food, and preferred seating, usually drives how it should be built. February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 10 President Thune question the interest level of Minneapolis for IHL and NHL hockey. Mr. Lester said it was clear that Mr. Green tried to introduce the level of competition among the three facilities to get them bidding against each other, but that is not good public policy. Minneapolis' revenue streams are in a very tight deal with the Timberwolves. Minneapolis would be very interested in having a hockey team as, for one thing, it would bring an additional 600,000 people downtown. Mr. Marolt resumed speaking about the building plans and the suites. Councilmember Megard requested clarification on the suites; whether they will maintain themselves for 30 years and the length of their sales value. Don Eyberg, V.P. at Ellerbe Beckett Architects, said it is a variable market. It depends on corporate support, team performance, and they can go in and out of fashion. He pointed out that private viewing suites have not been around as long as 30 years. Councilmember Rettman asked when the Council would be able to see some prices. Mr. Frauenshuh estimated a round number would be $28 million with a contingency list of about $9 million that probably need doing; possible $35 to $40 million for the whole package. The lower priced model without the $9 million would be $10 to $15 million. Councilmember Harris questioned if the suites are the key levers. Mr. Dexter said they are a significant factor. The season, per game tickets, parking, suites, advertising, t.v., radio, etc. are important. Councilmember Rettman asked if the suites become part of the negotiations. Mr. Dexter responded in the affirmative. He added that two levels are considerably less to build than suites. Councilmembers Blakey asked if other arenas have done this. Mr. Dexter said that Hartford, Connecticut, built two one-levels, a series of large corporate suites a few years later, and club seating a few years after that. Oakland, California is looking at options, one of which is to drop the building 25 feet. Mr. Frauenshuh stated there are approximately 16 seats in a suite which would generate approximately $60,000. Sixteen regular seats in that area of the arena at about $10 apiece for 40 games would equal $6,400. Councilmember Guerin asked what the potential revenue would be for 70 seats. Mr. Frauenshuh said $30,000 to $40,000 a box. Councilmember Guerin asked about the potential revenue for food, etc. Mr. Frauenshuh responded they are presently putting a study together. He said the City Council has three February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 11 possible options: 1) not do anything; 2) do the less expensive model of$20 to $25 million for an IHL team; 3) do the expensive model if an NHL hockey team is attracted. Councilmember Megard said she is curious about other facilities being upgraded and would like to see paperwork regarding these. Eileen McMahon, Executive Director of the Convention and Visitors Bureau, appeared before the Council. Ms. McMahon said she called her counterparts in other northern tier cities that have NHL teams in their towns to get feedback in terms of out of town visitors, conventioneers, rooms night use, etc. They all reported very minimal impact from out of city visitors. Hotel usage was not significant. Hospitality businesses (bars, restaurants, etc.) do well when games are played. A report received from Buffalo, NY, indicated that the arena was improved and the food area was extensively upgraded which had an adverse impact on surrounding restaurants. If the Civic Center didn't profit, it would put pressure on the Convention Center to make a profit, McMahon stated. She did not think that upgrading the Civic Center would be a key to drawing more conventions. Councilmember Guerin responded that he had paperwork from the National Council for Urban Economic Development showing hotels benefit from cities with hockey and baseball. Ms. McMahon felt the parking situation needed to be reviewed. Presently, 16 conventions have been booked and it is estimated they will bring $27 million into the community. St. Paul is looking at 25 to 30 conventions a year when the Convention Center is completed. Pat Fleury, President of the Saint Paul Hospitality Association appeared before the Council. He said hockey would be a plus but would not be a significant factor outside the downtown area. The hospitality industry in downtown Saint Paul is in trouble, in said, and the City cannot just look at IHL and NHL to solve the problem; the whole picture needs to be considered. It appears people come to functions at the Civic Center and leave downtown after the event. Mr. Fleury went on to say that businesses in Saint Paul are barely hanging on. He felt Saint Paul should try to secure an NHL team rather than an IHL. The City Council needs to do something to rejuvenate Saint Paul, Fleury stated, and noted that downtown Minneapolis is always active. He indicated that Saint Paul has 20 or more licenses that no one is interested in. Councilmember Bostrom said the skyway system isn't enough to keep people downtown. The Civic Center, Convention Center, and Science Museum are on the west side of downtown while the business district and entertainment district are east and there isn't a connection. If the city is going to pull all of these opportunities together, a physically February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 12 enclosed link will be required. Many times there are 17,000 people at the Civic Center and it's a disappointment that most of them leave after the event. Councilmember Blakey asked what is missing and what's not working. Mr. Fleury said the City Council is not working together; the hospitality industry usually knows before anyone else what's happening with City businesses. Pam Wheelock, Deputy Mayor, appeared before the Council. She, along with others, looked at what it would have taken to bring the Jets to Saint Paul. They started with some assumptions on why Saint Paul is a good market for professional hockey including an attractive venue for professional hockey, good demographics, a strong hockey tradition, solid corporate presence, easily accessible, centrally located, and an attractive media market. The assumption was that Minneapolis is not an option because of not enough revenue. Also, the City had to recognize that professional sports is a big business and that the bottom line has to be met. Ms. Wheelock further noted Saint Paul is a core city and has several unique attractions including the Ordway Theater, Science Museum, Children's Museum, State Capitol, and the History Center. The City needs to look at both the revenue and expenditures and get an estimate of ticket sales. Ms. Wheelock listed some of the key areas of revenue: regular tickets sales, preseason ticket sales, playoff ticket sales, club seating, suite revenue, concession revenue, merchandise revenue, NHL revenues, visiting broadcast fees, local t.v. revenue, local radio revenue, any pay-per-view revenue, advertising, dasher boards, on-ice logo, publications, there may be expansion revenue, promotion, VIP nights, premiums, product naming rights, signage, suite catering, event's promotion, coaches shows and camps, revenue from facility naming rights, and parking. On the expense side, Ms. Wheelock said there are predictables like players' salary, other hockey personnel, travel team, and a scouting department. There are costs associated with selling the tickets, administrative costs, public relations, game operations, management fees, merchandising expenses, preseason expenses, NHL dues and assessments, and real estate taxes. She indicated the tax impact for the owners is a hard issue to assess. Ms. Wheelock cited some key differences between the Minneapolis facility and the Saint Paul facility. There is no property tax payment in Saint Paul, there is a possibility of event parking revenue and of facility naming rights, there is not an entertainment tax in Saint Paul, and the Civic Center is not surrounded by other competing food and beverage facilities, which could have a positive influence on revenue from consumption and suite catering. February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 13 Ms. Wheelock said the possibility of having additional equity partners to lower the cost of assuming the team was discussed. One possibility for the corporate community is a low cost loan opportunity. Ms. Wheelock said during discussions they were not talking about moving out walls but rather having about 30 to 40 suites, an additional 1300 seats, locker facilities, and score boards. There was interest in creating a role for the State to help finance some capital improvements. The agreement was that, at a minimum, the net increase to the State would be the income taxes paid by the players and the team staff, to take the proceeds from the income tax dollars, and use that to finance the debt to make the capital improvements in the facility. That would be the State's role. During that time, the team made a decision to move to Phoenix so a lot of questions didn't go any further. There are other arenas with suites, Wheelock said, and Saint Paul would be asking the same corporate people to make another investment in another facility. The increasing supply starts to affect the demand. Ms. Wheelock feels that there are opportunities in this facility to come close on a game basis to generate enough revenue to meet the expenditure needs of the team. Increasingly, municipalities are looking at giving the management rights to the team. The notion was that when the Convention Center is opened, it will free up the arena for activities and it is a good time to look at what needs to be done to fill up the Civic Center. Councilmember Megard asked if St. Paul were to go for a class facility if there would be a better chance of splitting revenues and how they would be paid. Wheelock said in some ways they didn't need to look at that question because there was enough income generated from the salaries to re-funnel into the capital improvements. If St. Paul wants to attract an NHL team, it is necessary to know what it is going to take to attract a proposal for an NHL team. Ms. Wheelock suggested the Council look at the estimate done in November for capital improvements, look at what Ellerbe Beckett says is possible, do the cost benefit analysis, find out how much revenue the additional improvements will generate, determine if it is needed, and then make a decision as to whether the City wants to make an investment. Councilmember Megard asked what kind of team the City is interested in. Ms. Wheelock said professional sports are expensive and the Council has to make the decision. Councilmember Harris said the numbers have to be looked at more closely for both an IHL and NFL team in order to get a better picture; i.e., the numbers for tickets sold, how much could be raised from the suites, and parking revenues. He noted there was nothing available showing where the revenues are. Mr. Harris asked Ms. Wheelock if she had compiled this information. Ms. Wheelock said it can be done on the revenue side but they February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 14 would have to know what kind of expenses there would be to cover the team. Dealing with a team that sells for $85 million is different from dealing with a team that sold five years ago for $40 million. Salaries range from $14 to $24 million for teams, Wheelock said, and indicated she could give the Council a better sense of the range of possibilities on the revenue side. Councilmember Guerin indicated the Council can ask for that analysis or they can hire an outside agency to look at the revenues. President Thune suggested a decision be made soon as to what the City wants so if someone was to come in with a team, the Council would have the necessary information and be prepared to make a decision. Councilmember Blakey said the Council needs to decide if they are looking for stimulus for downtown or something else. Public testimony was received from the following individuals; Mary LeTourneau, 357 West Curtice Street, said she has been a hockey fan for six years. She was a season ticket holder for the North Stars for the last three years they were in town. She said she recently attended a national hockey game at United Center in Chicago. The $25 that got her three rows off the ice at the Met Center, got her ten rows up in the 3rd tier. What once cost $25 a ticket, now sells for $65 and the average person couldn't afford that, she said. She said one of the major difficulties with the Moose was the lack of corporate sponsorship. Councilmember Blakey asked Ms. LeTourneau if she felt a connection to downtown after the game. Ms. LeTourneau responded that she goes to Grand Avenue for entertainment after games. Laurie Lown, Scandia, MN, suggested the Council talk to fans to make sure they would patronize a hockey team. She said she couldn't afford an NHL ticket and couldn't take her nieces and nephews to an NHL game like she has in the past. The Moose only asked for fan and city support and it wasn't there, she stated. Ms. LeTourneau said she feels the Civic Center structure is fine as is compared to other IHL buildings she has been in. Councilmember Guerin said he has a report on hockey that is very balanced and suggested everyone should review it. February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 15 Councilmember Megard said she had information from a constituent that she would make available to everyone. Councilmember Harris suggested Gerry Strathman identify the tasks that came out of this meeting and the time lines for those tasks. Councilmember Blakey suggested Council should meet with more fans, and Councilmember Megard said they need to look at what hockey does for Saint Paul. Council President Thune said Gerry Strathman, City Council Research Director, will put together information, synthesize what was heard at this meeting, summarize questions the Council had, follow through on information requested to show the financial range and options and the likelihood of getting a team, whether it be an expansion team, whether the City wants to get into the business of getting some else's team to move here from both leagues. Further discussion will take place at the next Organizational meeting. Council President Thune suggested that additional questions and concerns be put in writing and given to Mr. Strathman. PUBLIC HEARINGS (Guerin was not present for the votes on Items 24 through 35) 24. Resolution - 95-878 - Approving application for a Patio Extension License by Twin States Music Company, dba Cab's Pub & Eatery (Kevin Anderson), 992 Arcade Street. (ID #84293) (Laid over from November 22, 1995) No one appeared in opposition; Councilmember Bostrom moved to lay over to April 17. Laid over to April 17 Yeas - 6 Nays - 0 25. Resolution - 96-169 - Approving application for a new Gambling Manager's License by Joanne Grundhauser, dba Church of St. Bernard's at Easy Street West, 616 Como Avenue. (ID #23066) No one appeared in opposition; Councilmember Rettman moved approval. Adopted Yeas - 6 Nays - 0 26. Resolution - 96-170 - Approving application for a new State Class B Gambling Premise Permit by Michael Anderson, on behalf of Church of St. Bernards, at Easy Street West, 616 Como Avenue. (ID #B-00963) No one appeared in opposition; Councilmember Rettman moved approval. Adopted Yeas - 6 Nays - 0 February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 16 27. Resolution - 96-171 - Approving application for a new Gambling Manager's License by Karen Lea Wirkus, dba Climb, Inc., at T.G. Bells, 1201 Jackson Street. (ID #85278) No one appeared in opposition; Councilmember Rettman moved approval. Adopted Yeas - 6 Nays - 0 28. Resolution - 96-172 - Approving application for a new State Class B Gambling Premise Permit by Peg Wetli, on behalf of Climb, Inc., at T.G. Bells, 1201 Jackson Street. (ID #B-02002) No one appeared in opposition; Councilmember Rettman moved approval. Adopted Yeas - 6 Nays - 0 29. Resolution - 96-173 - Approving application for a new Gambling Manager's License by Steven Patrick Tibbetts, dba Church of Incarnation at Erick's Bar, 949 East Seventh Street. (ID #86151) No one appeared in opposition; Councilmember Harris moved approval. Adopted Yeas - 6 Nays - 0 30. Resolution - 96-174 - Approving application for a new State Class B Gambling Premise Permit by Robert T. Monaghan, on behalf of Church of the Incarnation, at Erick's Bar, 949 East Seventh Street. (ID #B-00639) No one appeared in opposition; Councilmember Harris moved approval. Adopted Yeas - 6 Nays - 0 31. Resolution - 96-175 - Approving application for a Cigarette, Swimming Pool (indoor), Hotel/Motel to 50 rooms, Hotel/Motel for an additional 200 rooms, Entertainment-B, Restaurant-B, Sunday On Sale Liquor and Liquor On Sale-A License by Capital City Properties, dba Radisson Inn St. Paul, 411 Minnesota Street. (ID #25581) No one appeared in opposition; Councilmember Megard moved approval. Adopted Yeas - 6 Nays - 0 32. Resolution - 96-176 - Approving application for a Caterer-A, Gambling Location-B, Liquor On Sale-A, Sunday On Sale Liquor, Entertainment-B and Restaurant-B License by Megali, Inc., dba Gabe's By The Park, 991 Lexington Parkway North. (ID #92004) No one appeared in opposition; Councilmember Rettman moved approval. Adopted Yeas - 6 Nays - 0 February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 17 33. Resolution - 96-177 - Vacating part of Sixth Street between Summit Avenue and Mulberry Street allowing petitioner to improve access to a parking lot which serves the tenants of an apartment building. (Public Hearing will be laid over to February 28) Councilmember Rettman moved to lay over one week. Laid over to February 28 Yeas - 6 Nays - 0 34. Final Order - 96-178 - In the matter of construction and/or reconstruction of sidewalks at 800 Blair Avenue, 794 Dayton Avenue, 175 North Victoria Street, 775 Jefferson Avenue, 1382 Bayard Avenue, 1818 and 2017 Bohland Avenue, 1703 Rome Avenue, 1880, 1886 and 1890 Yorkshire Avenue, 1514 Englewood Avenue and 1095 Desoto Street. (File #S95109) (Public Hearing will be laid over to February 28) Councilmember Rettman moved to lay over one week. Laid over to February 28 Yeas - 6 Nays - 0 35. Resolution Ratifying and Confirming Condemnation - 96-179 - In the matter of condemning and acquiring permanent right-of-way easement and temporary construction easements in connection with construction of the new Wabasha Street Bridge and the new Navy (Raspberry) Island Bridge. (File #18794E) (Public Hearing will be laid over to February 28) No one appeared in opposition; Councilmember Rettman moved to lay over one week. Laid over to February 28 Yeas - 6 Nays - 0 Suspension Items Councilmember Harris moved for suspension of the rules to introduce the following resolution. Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 Resolution - 96-181 - Authorizing city officials to request an extension of sixty (60) days from the Minnesota Amateur Sports Commission for meeting the criteria of the conditions in the Mighty Ducks grant. Councilmember Harris moved approval. Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 February 21, 1996 City Council Summary Minutes Page 18 Councilmember Blakey moved for suspension of the rules to introduce the following resolution. Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 Resolution - 96-182 - Agreeing to hold a City Council closed door meeting on February 28, 1996, at 2:45 p.m. in the Northwest Conference Room, Third Floor, City Hall, to consider strategy for labor negotiations. Councilmember Blakey moved approval. Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 Councilmember Blakey moved to adjourn the meeting. Yeas - 7 Nays - 0 A .JO l'N:P A'. 8:0 '.M. ' AL& , P .vid Thun' uncil President ATTEST: Minutes approved by Council —V\'3,-------- • -1( iNe---0\\•z-•-•\-,-;-,,,•„_____. Nancy Anders Th�--3, L, `\c\ck Assistant Council Secretary rn/mce g W J i C1C) 14‘ cT4 q' `5' m x " a c M t LC) 1 ---?: :,\. cn N vi A d w rW C C.) a a 6 M © 3 o H c n � W w — r Al CA 1 ) z :- H 3 x a 'Y h Y f a z