Approved Minutes 4-30-1997 SUMMARY MINUTES OF THE SAINT PAUL CITY COUNCIL
Wednesday, April 30, 1997 - 2:30 p.m.
Northwest Conference Room
Third Floor, City Hall and Court House
Saint Paul, Minnesota
CLOSED DOOR SESSION
Present- 6 - Councilmembers Blakey, Bostrom, Collins, Harris, Megard, and Morton
Absent- 1 - Councilmember Thune (Arrived late)
Also present were: Peg Birk, City Attorney; John McCormick, City Attorney's Office; Tim
Marx, Mayor's Office; Mary Kearney, Labor Relations; Angela Nalezny, Labor Relations and
Nancy Anderson, Assistant Council Secretary.
The meeting was called to order at 2:40 p.m.
Session discussed labor relations.
(Blakey left meeting at 3:12 p.m.)
(Blakey returned to meeting at 3:15 p.m.)
(Thune arrived to meeting at 3:16 p.m.)
ATTEST: ADA ' I AT :25 p.m.
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Assistant cil Secretary Council Pres enVave Thune
Nancy Anderson
SUMMARY MINUTES OF THE SAINT PAUL CITY COUNCIL
Wednesday, April 30, 1997 - 3:30 PM
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS, 3RD FLOOR
City Hall and Court House
15 West Kellogg Boulevard
The meeting was called to order at 3:40 p.m. by Council President Thune.
Present - 7 - Blakey, Bostrom, Collins, Harris, Megard, Morton, Thune
Absent - 0
CONSENT AGENDA
FOR ACTION
Councilmember Harris requested Item#19 be removed for discussion.
Councilmember Harris moved approval of the Consent Agenda as amended. Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
The following communication was read into the record by Nancy Anderson, Assistant Secretary to the
City Council:
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1. Approval of minutes of March 26, 1997.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
2. Claims of Dan Bellandi, R.C. Dellmore, Depositors Insurance Co. (for John Dehaven), Linda Lue
Gabriel, Carolyn Holmes, McDonalds, Kay McGuire, Patrick Michenfelder (for June King)
Bridget Needham, Ohio Casualty Insurance (for Jeanette Koppe), Dennis L. & Mary K. Smith,
Randall Smith & Katie Trotzky, Mary Stupka, Lois Torgerson, and Ann Wheaton.
Referred to Employee/Risk Management Division
3. Summons and Complaint in the matter of Milford Brewer, et al vs. the City of Saint Paul, et al.
Referred to the City Attorney's Office
4. Notice of Intent to Take Possession, etc. in the matter of County of Ramsey vs. the City of Saint
Paul, et al.
Referred to the City Attorney's Office
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 2
5. Letter from the Office of the City Attorney announcing a hearing before an Administrative Law
Judge on June 5, 1997, 9:30 a.m., Room 41, St. Paul City Hall, concerning the Taxicab Driver's
License held by Carlos Rosillo, 540 SE Third Street, Winnebago, MN.
6. Letter from the Office of the City Attorney rescheduling the public hearing before the City
Council from April 23, 1997 to June 25, 1997, in the matter of licenses held by Laro, Inc., dba
Patrick's Lounge, 1318 Larpenteur Avenue West.
7. Letters from Saint Paul Public Health declaring 796 Laurel Avenue and 850 Maryland Avenue East
as "nuisance properties"and setting date of Legislative Hearings for May 6, 1997, and City Council
Hearings for May 14, 1997.
8. Letter from Saint Paul Public Health declaring 1164 North Non Street as "nuisance property."
(For notification purposes only; public hearing will be scheduled at a later date if necessary.)
9. Administrative Orders:
D001216 Addition of$28,081.00 to the contract for Saint Paul Civic Center Expansion,
Council President-4 Building Construction.
D001217 Addition of$50,175.00 to the contract for Saint Paul Civic Center Expansion,
Council President-4 Building Construction.
D001218 Budget revision in Saint Paul Public Health/Special Revenue Fund.
D001219 Authorizing payment, not to exceed $2,000.00,to Hamline University for costs
incurred for graduation ceremonies for new fire recruits.
Noted as on file in the City Clerk's Office
10. Resolution - 97-415 - Approving the July 1, 1996 through June 30, 1998 Labor Agreement
between Independent School District No. 625 and International Union of Operating Engineers
Local 70. (Laid over from April 23 for adoption)
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
11. Resolution - 97-465 - Approving the issuance of an approximate $2,000,000 tax-exempt conduit
bond issue for the acquisition and installation of manufacturing equipment for Bro-Tex Company,
Inc.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
12. Resolution- 97-466 -Amending C.F. 97-311 requesting the State Legislature exempt Saint Paul
from amendments to Minnesota Statutes, sec. 205.07, subd. 1, and allow the voters in Saint Paul to
decide the term of office for Saint Paul City Council.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
13. Resolution - 97-467 - Authorizing the Department of Fire & Safety Services to enter into an
agreement with the Saint Paul Park Fire Department.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 3
14. Resolution- 97-468 -Adjusting the rates of pay for a number of special employment titles in the
Salary Plan and Rates of Compensation Resolution.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
15. Resolution- 97-469 -Authorizing the Minnesota Department of Transportation to investigate and
determine the maximum and safe speeds on West Seventh Street from 100 feet east of Madison
Street to Dealton Street.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
16. Resolution- 97-470 -Authorizing the proper City officials to execute a contract with the U.S. Equal
Employment Opportunity Commission for the provision of investigative services.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
17. Resolution - 97-471 - Approving a budget amendment to exchange Capital Improvement Bond
(CIB) funds and Community Development Block Grant(CDBG)monies between various approved
capital improvement projects.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
18. Resolution - 97-472 - Approving District Energy's and District Cooling's request to amend the
heating and cooling rates.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
19. (Discussed after the consent agenda)
20. Resolution- 97-474 -Directing the proper City officials to execute a Payment in lieu of Taxes
agreement with Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
21. Resolution - 97-475 - Authorizing the proper City officials to execute and approve Metropolitan
Council Livable Communities Demonstration Account Grant Agreement for the Phalen Village
redevelopment project.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
22. Resolution- 97-476 -Approving payment of$8,013.89 to Dung Phan and his attorney, Francis
Rondoni, in full settlement of their claim against the City of Saint Paul.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
23. Preliminary Order- 97-477 - In the matter of sidewalk reconstruction on the east side of North
Grotto Street from Lafond Avenue to Blair Avenue, and both sides of Marion Street from Aurora
Avenue to West University Avenue, and setting date of public hearing for June 25, 1997. (File
#S97033, S97034)
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 4
24. Preliminary Order - 97-478 - In the matter of sidewalk reconstruction on the north side of East
Sycamore Street from Sylvan Street to Jackson Street, and setting date of public hearing for June 25,
1997. (File#S97035)
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
25. Preliminary Order- 97-479 - In the matter of sidewalk reconstruction on both sides of Asbury Street
from Thomas Avenue to Lafond Avenue; the east side of Herschel Street from Shields Avenue to
West University Avenue; both sides of North Prior Avenue from Portland Avenue to Ashland
Avenue; and the east side of Simpson Street from Edmund Avenue to Thomas Avenue at 594
Simpson Street only, and setting date of public hearing for June 25, 1997. (File#S97036-S97039)
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
26. Preliminary Order- 97-480 -In the matter of sidewalk reconstruction on the east side of South
Griggs Street from Bayard Avenue to Scheffer Avenue, and setting date of public hearing for June
25, 1997. (File#S97040)
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
27. Preliminary Order- 97-481 - In the matter of sidewalk reconstruction on the south side of
Englewood Avenue from North Lexington Parkway to North Dunlap Street, and both sides of Van
Buren Avenue from Virginia Street to Como Avenue, and setting date of public hearing for June 25,
1997. (File#S97041 & S97042)
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
28. Preliminary Order - 97-482 - In the matter of sidewalk reconstruction on both sides of Fairmount
Avenue from South Victoria Street to South Milton Street; the south side of West Ninth Street from
St. Joseph's Lane to Main Street; both sides of Osceola Avenue from South Milton Street to South
Chatsworth Street; the south side of East Seventh Street from North Robert Street to Jackson Street;
both sides of St. Joseph's Lane from West Seventh Street to West Exchange Street, both sides of
West Exchange Street from St. Joseph's Lane to St. Peter Street and the north side of West Seventh
Street from St. Peter Street to St. Joseph's Lane, and setting date of public hearing for June 25, 1997.
(File#S97043-S97047)
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
29. Preliminary Order - 97-483 - In the matter of sidewalk reconstruction on the south side of Hartford
Avenue from South Pascal Street to Warwick Street, and setting date of public hearing for June 25,
1997. (File#S97048)
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 5
30. Preliminary Order - 97-484 - In the matter of sidewalk reconstruction on the east side of North
Fairview Avenue from Englewood Avenue to Hubbard Avenue,the west side of North Fairview
Avenue from Englewood Avenue to Chelton Avenue and the west side of North Fairview Avenue
from Chelton Avenue to Clayland Place at 789 North Fairview Avenue only; both sides of Montrose
Place from Dayton Avenue to Marshall Avenue; and the north side of Thomas Avenue from Aldine
Street to North Wheeler Street, and setting date of public hearing for June 25, 1997. (File#S97049-
S97051)
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
31. Preliminary Order - 97-485 - In the matter of sidewalk reconstruction on both sides of Alameda
Street from West Iowa Avenue to California Avenue; the south side of West Arlington Avenue from
Galtier Street to Farrington Street; both sides of Como Place from Hatch Avenue to West Jessamine
Avenue; the north side of West Cook Avenue from Galtier Street to Miltida Street; the east side of
Galtier Street from Wayzata Street to Front Avenue and the west side of Galtier Street from Stinson
Street to Front Avenue; both sides of Hatch Avenue from North Victoria Street to North Milton
Street,the east side of North Milton Street from Front Avenue to Hatch Avenue and the west side of
North Victoria Street from Front Avenue to Hatch Avenue; both sides of Huron Street from West
Arlington Avenue to West Hoyt Avenue; both sides of Matilda Street from West Lawson Avenue to
West Cook Avenue; both sides of Matilda Street from West Maryland Avenue to West Ivy Avenue;
both sides of Maywood Street from West Wheelock Parkway to West Cottage Avenue; and both
sides of Schletti Street from West Cottage Avenue to West Arlington Avenue, and setting date of
public hearing for June 25, 1997. (File#S97052-S97062)
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
32. Preliminary Order- 97-486 -In the matter of sidewalk reconstruction on the north side of East
Hawthorne Avenue from Walsh Street to Weide Street, and setting date of public hearing for June
25, 1997. (File#S97063)
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
33. Resolution Approving Assessment- 97-487 -In the matter of assessment of benefits, cost and
expenses for sidewalk reconstruction on the north side of Conway Street from North Ruth Street to
North McKnight Road and the south side of Conway Street from North Ruth Street to North Howard
Avenue; both sides of North Ruth Street from Upper Afton Road to North Park Drive; the south side
of Conway Street from Flandrau Street to North White Bear Avenue; both sides of East Third Street
from Pedersen Street to North Howard Street; the west side of Ruth Street from Stillwater Avenue to
Case Avenue; and Reaney Avenue from Nortonia Avenue to North Ruth Street, and setting date of
public hearing for June 25, 1997. (File#S95040, S95049, S95084, S95092, S95099, S95106)
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
19. Resolution - 97-473 - Directing the Department of Public Works to give five non-conforming
driveways on Morgan Avenue and Worcester Avenue curb cuts and aprons as requested and
directing the Office of Licensing, Inspections and Environmental Protection to expedite the
variance process and waive the variance fee.
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 6
Councilmember Harris reported that a letter was received from Public Works Director Stacy
Becker indicating that this was not implemented City-wide and he would like to make it applicable
to residents throughout the City. He presented a substitute resolution to include specific
properties..
Peter Warner, Assistant City Attorney, said the Legislative Code is very clear on what procedures
and policies the City must follow in granting a variance. The types of variances involved in this
request relate to the City's paving and repair projects. This resolution would grant variances
without following the formalities in the Code and the City would expose itself to legal challenge
for granting illegal variances. He suggested certain options the Council might consider in
evaluating the resolution and the amendments presented by Councilmember Harris. The most
important technicality is that anytime an application for a variance is considered by the City, there
must be a notice to the general public and notice to all property owners within 300 feet of the
owners affected by the variance. Also, all applications for a variance must have a site plan
attached and fees must be paid at the time of application. The resolution contains things that are
legally deficient, Warner said.
Council President Thune clarified that the variances are at properties where curb cuts and
driveways currently exist and as street paving is done, these would be taken away.
Councilmember Harris cited an example where the property owner has lived at his residence since
1955 and never had a garage. He would be required to pay the fee to go through the variance
process. The City approved the design of this lot and the zoning code changed 20 years later.
There are 40-50 residents throughout the City who are faced with the same problem which is why
this resolution was prepared. He suggested that the Council does not have to support the variance
but could waive the fee.
Bob Kessler, Office of License, Inspections, and Environmental Protection (LIEP), stated that a
similar situation existed in Ward 4 and the Board of Zoning Appeals (BZA) agreed that there
needs to be a special program or special procedure to address these unusual situations. In that case
they decided it still needed to go through the review process and the fee should be reduced. The
Council can decide to waive the fee but the difficulty is that they cannot go back to an approved
site plan or approved building permit to prove that they were approved originally. A solution
would be to change the Code and allow the Zoning Administrator to make a determination that
these particular parcels were used before 1975 similar to other such determinations. That would
give LIEP the authority to not even get to this point where they would have to go through the
process. Until there is a legal change, the Council could waive the fee but he did not think the
Council could circumvent the BZA approval process at this point.
Mr. Kessler recommended that the Council take action to waive the fee in this case but they would
still go through the review, notify Public Works that it is expected the BZA will approve the
requests and to plan for it so they do not install curbs that would have to be removed later.
Councilmember Harris moved approval of the substitute
Substitute adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 7
FOR DISCUSSION
34. Report by the Administration on the status of City of Saint Paul legislation.
Bill Huepenbecker, Mayor's Office, presented an update. He noted that the tax bills passed in
both the Senate and the House and are going to conference committee. Both bills contain levy
limits which the City tried to remove but leadership is insistent on having them in. They are tied
to the Consumer Price Index. There was a reverse referendum provision in the House bill on
levies which was removed. Both bills contain a commercial and industrial rate reduction which
creates a problem for cities because with a decrease in TIF revenues, it leaves about a $2 million
gap for Saint Paul. They are working to modify the language because presently the bill makes no
provision to give the money back to the cities.
The computer systems projects bill was amended by the Senate into another bill.
The redemption period for snow birds passed the House floor and is going to the Senate.
The right-of-way bill should be brought up on the House floor during the week of April 28. It
allows St. Paul to keep most of the ordinance and improves on the general law as it is now. A
move in the house is going to be to keep the signout language as amended by the Senate.
The length of City Council terms was amended by Representative Trimble and the bill went to the
Senate for concurrence. Senator Wieger wants to have a public hearing on the issue because it was
not introduced as a bill. Mr. Huepenbecker thought it was very likely the City would be
exempted.
Council President Thune asked abut the status of the proposed speed limit change on 35E. Mr.
Huepenbecker said they were trying to keep it off of a senate bill. They have told members that
the Council and Mayor supports abiding by the agreement that was made with the community.
Councilmember Megard asked about the time line on the education bill. Mr. Huepenbecker said
the K-12 bill has passed both bodies of the Legislature and the conference committee should be
starting shortly. It is another bill that people feel will be vetoed because of the tax credit issue for
private education.
Councilmember Megard asked what will come to St. Paul as a result of the provisions that are in
the bill presently. She feels it's important for the City to know what is coming or what had been
requested as it's connected with the youth enrichment program and community schools funding.
Mr. Huepenbecker said he would report back on this.
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 8
35. Resolution - 97-430 - Authorizing the use of$100,000.00 of available City resources for the YES!
Program in 1997 through 1998. (Laid over from April 23)
Councilmember Blakey introduced a substitute resolution and moved approval. He reported that
the $100,000 for job coaches was found in CDBG funds and moved approval of a substitute
resolution.
Substitute adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
36. Resolution - 97-488 - Directing the Administration to provide an analysis of the Criminal Gang
Council and Strike Force Legislation at the April 30 City Council meeting.
Ross Lundstrom, Commander with the Police Department appeared. He reported that he has been
tracking the State Gang Taskforce bill. There is a bill on both sides of the Legislature that is
working its way through the committees. It involves setting aside $2.5 million over two years
state-wide. It establishes a governing council that is made up of metropolitan police chiefs,
sheriffs, county attorneys, and some out-state sheriffs and police chiefs. There is some contention
as to who those extra members will be. It is planned there will be a governing council of 12 to 18
people which will decide the rules and how the money will be spent. It appears there will be some
reimbursement to local agencies for the police officers assigned to the task force. That may
determine how many officers St. Paul will assign to the task force.
There is discussion of a metro team. The BCA is getting five additional agents assigned out-state
who used to work on gang issues. The final bill will be the result of a conference committee. The
Governor has some ideas on what he wants it to look like so line item veto may be a part of it.
The projection of the people working on the bill is that they would like to see something up and
running by August 1, 1997.
Councilmember Blakey stated that one of the concerns he had about the bill is that the task force
wants to be able to determine gang criteria. He questioned how that would be established.
Commander Ross distributed a handout listing 10 point criteria. The 10 point system was
established in consultation with other states that are several years ahead of Minnesota with gang
problems. What they have is as objective a definition of what a gang member is that they have
been able to establish and it has resulted in some convictions of crimes for the benefit of a gang.
The Legislature is "loosening" that language a bit. It has to be proven that a crime is for the
benefit of a gang and it's difficult to say that this made the gang a better place. If it can be
established that a person is a member of a criminal gang, they will be able to go for enhanced
prosecution.
Councilmember Megard said she has heard complaints from members of minority communities
about dossiers being established for young people. She asked Mr. Ross what starts the process of
identification and at what age a file is opened on an individual. Commander Ross responded that
if an individual meets the criteria of any of the 10 points, they will start to pay attention. When
three of the criteria are met and they are convicted or adjudicated, in the case of a juvenile, they
are then eligible for gang prosecution.
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 9
Councilmember Megard said her concern is whether kids are being pushed in a direction because
of identification. Commander Ross responded that was a real concern of theirs and the
information does not go outside the Police Department.
Councilmember Collins noted that the juvenile crime system is different from the adult criminal
system and questioned how this relates to the juvenile justice system. Commander Ross responded
that "adjudicated" refers to the juvenile system where they are adjudicated delinquent. There is a
lot of gang crime legislation working its way through this year and they are removing some of the
differences between juvenile and adult. The legislation will allow prosecution for age 14 and
older.
After identification has been established, Blakey asked if there will be some intervention work
versus totally punitive. Mr. Ross said that is not the primary responsibility of the Police
Department but they work with social service agencies.
Councilmember Blakey asked if it is only law enforcement personnel putting the task force
together or if there are community people involved. Mr. Ross said it is all criminal justice
personnel - either prosecutors or police officers. The focus of the task force is on the law
enforcement side, he said.
Councilmember Bostrom said the term used in dealing with these is "drug area with multi-
jurisdictional task forces." They were created because people always cross jurisdictional
boundaries which is why something will have to be done on a broader base other than just one
municipality, one city or one county. He asked if they will be going after the petty criminals or
after the hard core criminal element. Commander Ross said the mission of the task force has not
been clearly defined but in discussions they talked about going after the most violently active gang
members, the leaders of the gangs, and trying to break up the gangs.
Councilmember Blakey moved approval
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
37. Resolution- 97-489 - Electing a new City Council Vice President.
Councilmember Megard moved to lay over one week
Laid over to May 7 Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
ORDINANCES
38. First Reading - 97-490 - An ordinance amending Chapter 176 of the Saint Paul Legislative Code to
prohibit persons from attaching objects to trees by injurious means, and replacing references to the
director of community services.
Laid over to May 7 for second reading
39. First Reading - 97-491 - An ordinance granting the Port Authority, and their successors in interest,
permission to operate and maintain existing railroad tracks crossing Ridder Circle.
Laid over to May 7 for second reading
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 10
POLICY SESSION
40. Presentation and discussion of "Compete Globally, Thrive Locally. What the public sector should
do to help the greater Twin Cities region prosper."
Presenter: Lyle Wray, Executive Director, Citizens League
Mr. Wray appeared, made a presentation and answered questions of Councilmembers.
Suspension Item
Councilmember Collins moved for suspension of the rules to introduce and approve the following
resolution:
Resolution - 97-492 - Making changes to Saint Paul's Municipal State Aid designated streets.
Councilmember Collins explained that this resolution calls for re-designating certain streets
throughout the City as MSA streets. By identifying the streets as MSA streets, the City will
receive about $200,000 from State MSA funds.
Councilmember Harris asked Ed Warn, Public Works Department, to what extent the City would
still have control by switching from MSA to the County State Aid system. Mr. Warn explained
that this would be a 10-year agreement with the County on the appropriate roadway jurisdictions
within the City. Pierce-Butler is an example of where an agreement was made several years ago to
transfer jurisdictions in an orderly manner so the County has more of the high volume, through
routes and they are responsible for them. The County will take over maintenance responsibility
but they in turn contract with the City of St. Paul for maintenance. The City receives money from
the County for regular maintenance and the City is required to participate in their Capital
Improvement Program.
Councilmember Megard moved approval.
Council President Thune said it would be helpful to know which streets are already up to MSA
standards regarding widths, etc. He said the Council would like Public Works to anticipate what
is going to be done and they would like to remove streets that would involve widening and
removing trees.
Mr. Warn said he will prepare a detailed report on this issue and Council agreed to have the issue
as a policy discussion at an upcoming meeting.
Councilmember Harris further suggested that it would be helpful if the streets could be identified
for the paving projects scheduled for 1998 as the budget is being prepared. Councilmember
Megard added that they should also understand the waivers, etc. that go into MSA dollars.
Adopted Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 11
Reconsidered Item
Councilmember Harris moved reconsideration and approval of the following resolution:
Resolution - 97-454 - Ordering the owner to remove or repair the building at 587 Stryker Avenue
within fifteen (15) days from adoption of resolution. (Legislative Hearing Officer recommends the
owner be granted 180 days to complete the repairs) (Adopted April 23)
Reconsidered and adopted as amended per Legislative Hearing Officer's recommendation Yeas -
7 Nays - 0
(The meeting was recessed from 5:45 - 6:10 p.m.)
Present - 7 Absent - 0
41. Resolution - 97-349 - Creating a Capital City Development Program. (Laid over from April 2)
Councilmember Blakey explained what prompted creation of this resolution was that he and
Councilmember Harris looked at some of the houses to homes guidelines and other issues with
regard to housing and how effective they were for the City of Saint Paul. They would like to see
if the Council can come together and as a City overall to talk about housing strategy. He said he
would like to have a full discussion on housing and what can be done to make it easier for the non-
profits, for-profits, and CDCs to do housing in Saint Paul, and try to get a sense from other
organizations such as Habitat for Humanity and Builders Outreach as to what it takes for the City
to be a good partner and an impetus to do housing in the City. Councilmember Blakey said he has
met with several people who are interested in the program.
Council President Thune concurred that there has been a good response from the community
regarding this proposal. He distributed a letter in support from the West 7th/Fort Road
Federation, the City's first neighborhood development corporation. They offered some
suggestions and they want to make sure the program works in the support of other investments in
the neighborhood.
Councilmember Megard questioned what the problem was they were trying to fix with this
program and what the vision is.
Councilmember Harris responded that they initially want to put something on the table and Pam
Wheelock and Gary Peltier of the Department of Planning and Economic Development have been
asked to comment on it. The goals are to target the development to specific areas and provide
incentives to do that, evaluate some of the costs and hopefully have some economies of skill
through a larger scale contract with a CDC or for-profit developer, decrease costs through larger
scale development, reduce paperwork, and look at some of the requirements. He suggeted the
resolution could indicated that they are willing to look at subsidy levels and how to reduce costs to
make those two things a little bit closer. There were some subsidies that were very high and are
probably too low now so there will be an attempt to remedy that but not without first looking at
some of the costs that could be decreased; and, to increase the flexibility of public funds.
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 12
Councilmember Megard asked if they were trying to replace the Houses to Homes Program.
Councilmember Blakey responded that it is not a new program but taking a broader attempt at
doing housing better in the City. Houses-to-Homes is one important component of the larger
housing strategy.
Paul Gilliland, 1409 McCaffee Street, Chair of the Capital Improvement Budget Committee,
appeared and presented a draft proposal. The CIB Task Force is currently in the middle of the
1998-99 review and deliberations on the proposed budget which includes approximately $6.5
million of the Community Development Block Grant program. The CIB Committee does not
review a number of the other sources that are identified in this new program. The Home Program
is probably the largest. A number of line item programs such as Houses-to-Homes, Single Family
Rehab, Rental Rehab, are being replaced with one general overall housing package.
There is an issue as to what extent the citizenry of the City through its processes that are
established now review the expenditure of those funds. Presently for CDBG applications, the
capital portion of that budget, $6.5 million, the CIB Committee reviews proposals for funding.
Some goes to parks, commercial redevelopment, and housing development. Specific line item
budgets are approved and passed on to the Mayor and Council. Mr. Gilliland said his concern is
that this program is coming to them in the middle of their own concern about how little they do
with review of community development block grants. He said there was an intricate process with
the Neighborhood Partnership Program that lead to the approval of the contracts for funding under
that program. This proposal lacks that intermediate capability, he said. This fund is larger than
STAR on an annual basis yet there is a fairly well detailed citizen review process. There is a
process for review of CDBG through the CIB Committee but it is not as developed. He suggested
that there is a need to "daylight" that process whether it be through the CIB Committee or through
an intermediary committee that is established.
Karen Swenson, Northeast Neighborhoods Development Corporation (NNDC), appeared. She
noted that the program states it will realize City development objectives; neighborhood based
housing and economic development strategies. She said she feels what the strategies are may vary
significantly across neighborhoods within the City. Because they do differ, she felt some of the
items on the programs for funding and some of the criteria for development proposals may apply
well in some kinds of situations and may not apply at all in others because the characteristics of the
neighborhood and the types of programs that would fit the neighborhood may not be the same.
She cited an example saying that the Houses to Homes program has been difficult to use in the part
of the City covered by the NNDC. It is not due to problems with the structure of the Houses to
Homes programs but because they cannot use it to address vacant houses because there is not
enough gap between acquisition cost and resale price. Whatever the subsidy level is, it does not fit
the state of their housing stock which is important because they are running 25% of the entire
City's HUD houses and they are not able to deal with them when they change ownership. Instead,
they are seeing the houses after they change ownership and people find out how much work needs
to be done.
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 13
As a developer, if they are doing a houses-to-homes house they must figure in the acquisition
price, the amount of rehab that has to be done on it and any soft costs. Their total development
cost, which includes the selling price they can get for the house plus the subsidy, has to add up to
all those costs. Because there is very little difference between acquisition cost and resale price,
they cannot make the program work. A lot of that is because HUD is selling houses for more than
they are worth given the amount of rehab they need. They are finding home buyers who are
getting stuck after the homes have been rejected by NNDC. Ms. Swenson said NEDC needs to be
able to deal with homes with the present homeowner in this area.
Another factor that significantly affects the kind of housing strategy that works in their area is they
have sound housing that is undergoing a generational turnover. A lot of the housing was built
after World War II and in the older parts it was built in the 1920s. They are seeing a lot of
turnover and because of that situation they have people who are reluctant to make investments.
The kind of problem houses they see which would normally be the Houses to Homes candidates
are not targeted and they are scattered. If a criterion is set to target an area, the appropriate area
of NNDC to target is their entire service area.
To enhance the use of funds, Ms. Swenson said some of those practices need to be looked at
because some of the efforts being made are being undermined.
Councilmember Harris asked if she had some specific suggestions for a change. Ms. Swenson
suggested putting more site plan review items into the early notification system.
Pam Wheelock, Department of Planning and Economic Development (PED) , appeared and stated
that this discussion was completely consistent with the discussions PED has been participating in
collectively with the governing body for the last six to nine months. The things that are
particularly important from their perspective is everything they have talked about in the description
of the goals is geared at similar goals to the NCDI III grant application which the Council recently
endorsed increasing production, making sure there is an impact from an investment in the
community and production for both infill housing and for rehabilitation. There are certain
elements of it that PED would suggest need to have more staff input and with neighborhood
organizations development implementation plans, but this seems to be a very clear statement from
their perspective about the Council's desired outcomes and the goals of the housing programs. Ms.
Wheelock made one contrary opinion to Mr. Gilliland saying she would not suggest they should
underestimate the dialogue that goes on in the neighborhoods between the CDCs and between PED
staff and other neighborhood organizations. She talked about a meeting she attended with Habitat
for Humanity and Wilder representatives where they talked about their collaboration and the work
they are doing primarily in the northeast and northwest parts of the City and also on the west side
and other neighborhoods as well. They have extensive conversations as part of their process to
work with the neighborhood on design issues and to talk about desired outcomes and strategies.
Ms. Wheelock suggested that on a project-by-project decision-making basis, the Council think
carefully about the role of an advisory committee so as not to bog down the decision-making
process and delay getting the funds into the community and getting the projects underway.
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 14
Councilmember Megard noted that last year a program called "chips" was established which is a
targeted program. She asked if the new program is implemented, how it affects a program that
was just started. She further requested a response from staff on condensing money into one
program, the consolidation into the block grant idea. She said it was her understanding that the
different pots of money are in different areas for a reason. She asked if the new program will be
flexible with the constraints that are already on these programs.
Ms. Wheelock responded that from a staff perspective they operate without a lot of control over a
significant portion of their funds. All of the federal funds had restrictions and requirements that
the City does not have the flexibility to change. She suggested staff come back with
recommendations about strategies to most effectively change the way the programs are structured
or the process used for the programs to most consistently achieve the goals laid out.
There are some more restrictive funds, primarily federal funds and in some cases state funds, that
may be available, Ms. Wheelock continued. The interest is in figuring out ways to effectively
spend those flexible funds and use the more flexible funds to either do the projects that cannot be
done with the more limited funds or inflexible funds or to supplement them to have a complete
project. They are interested in making the programs more predictable, more flexible, more
responsive to different needs in different neighborhoods and figuring out better ways to get the
dollars out there, get the work done and have some economic and community impact resulting
from that. What that specifically means to the existing programs is that there is a lot more work to
do if there is endorsement from the governing body. If the Council wants them to proceed. they
would be willing to come back and provide some recommendations about how best to do
implementation. She said they look for opportunities to get the project done and to make sure they
are spending the flexible dollars so they have these dollars available when they can't do the project
any other way.
Gary Peltier, Department of Planning and Economic Development, stated that for housing projects
they can determine the eligibility of CDBG dollars based on the income of the residents.
Councilmember Megard questioned who chooses the targeted areas and what standards are used
for choosing houses within the targeted area for rehab. Ms. Wheelock responded that it's the
Council's decision as to what it is they want to achieve and how prescriptive they want to be with
the policy. The rule of common sense would apply and in order to have a solid proposal that is
worth consideration for funding, several things would be looked at: the applicant would describe
the methodology by which they have established or have justified that this is a targeted area.
Whether that is because it's in a residential street paving area, whether it's because of the
concentration of vacant or blighted houses in that area, or some other reason they would have the
burden of sharing what the criteria is. The more inclusive the support is for the application,
whether there are multiple parties involved or whether it has been through a community review
process, those are the things that will strengthen the application and bring it to the Council's
attention and suggest that it is worthy of funding.
Councilmember Megard said she would like to see a stronger private match in this program. She
also said she was concerned how this would work in her area and the scattered sites. There are
April 30, 1997, City Council Summary Minutes Page 15
some areas that can be targeted but she said she was not sure it would work as well in areas she
represents.
Pain Wheelock said the concern is going to be driven less by the allocation or the goals of the
Council than the actual availability of funds. It may not be in the Council's interest to leave the
funds unexpended and not out working in the community.
Councilmember Bostrom suggested that staff come back in six weeks with some suggestions on
how this might work.
Councilmember Collins said he felt HUD should be involved at some point.
Councilmember Harris moved to lay over to June 11.
Laid over to June 11 Yeas - 7 Nays - 0
Suspension Item
Councilmember Harris moved for suspension of the rules to introduce the following resolution and
lay over to May 7:
Resolution - 97-493 - Approving the Term Sheet for the lease of the new Hockey Arena to be
constructed as part of the Saint Paul Civic Center.
Pam Wheelock, Department of Planning and Economic Development reviewed the Term Sheet and
responded to questions from Councilmembers.
Laid over to May 7 Yeas -7 Nays - 0
Councilmember Harris mo
ved to adjourn the meeting.
i; P.M.
lavid President
ATTEST:
Minutes approved by Council
an y And n WhANIL, kV'II
Assistant Council Secretary