10-256Council File #��p
Green Sheet # 3100796
RESOLUTION
MINNESOTA
� ,.
1 BE IT RESOLVED, that the Council of the City of Saint Paul hereby certifies and approves the January
2 19, 2010 decision of the Legislative Hearing Officer for Appeals of Certificate of Occupancy Deficiency
3 Lists and Denial of Building Permits to Replace Egress Windows for the following addresses:
4
5 PrOnerty Appealed
6
7 1752-1754 Hague Avenue
Appellant
Stephen Sutton
9 Decision: 1754 Hague Ave — Grant a 4.5-inch variance on the openable height of the egress bedroom
10 window on the 3` floor;
11 1752 Hague Ave — Grant a 1.5-inch variance on the openable height of the egress window in the second
12 bedroom and a 6-inch variance on the openable height of the egress window in the fourth bedroom; and
13 deny the appeal on the window sashes and grant an extension to March 1, 2010 to come into compliance.
14
I S 1756 Sims Avenue Daniel Huneke
16
17 Decision: The appeal was denied with the following excevtions:
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
Item 2- deny the appeal for Unit 1, south side bedroom, and grant 30 days to come into compliance
(cannot be used as a sleeping room);
Items 3- deny the appeal and grant an extension for 30 days;
Item 14 - deny the appeal on Unit l, middle bedroom - reduce the number of occupants to two (2) effecYive
immediately (the living room may be used as a sleeping room);
Item 20 - deny the variance for egress bedroom windows in Unit 2, Unit labeled as Unit 3, and grant 90
days to bring the windows into compliance. Deny a 3-inch variance on the sill height issue and install
permanently affixed steps to the wall;
Item 21 - deny the appeal on the sill height issue and install permanently affixed steps to the wall.
Item 22 — de-conversion of unit{s) shall include: 1) removal of unit(s) kitchen, e.g.: stove, refrigerator,
cabinets and sink; 2) this "uniY' shall no longer be rented individually, but may be rented as space within
one of the other units; and 3) if this option is pursued, the aforementioned kitchen-less "unit" shall be
connected to another unit by removal of deadbolt locks separating those units (if they are present).
All other items must be completed by March 31, 2010.
/ p - �-� co
34
Bostrom
Carter
Haais
Adopted by Council: Date
Yeas
�
✓"
Absent
�
Adoption Certified by C trucil Secretary
BY� � � !� %L
Approved b a or. Date v
By:
Requested by Department of:
�
Form Approved by City Attomey
By:
Form Approved by Mayor for Submission to Council
By:
Approved by the Office of Financial Services
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� Green Sheet Green Sheet
10-256
Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet
1���
DepartmenVOffice/Council; ' Date Initiated: .
CO - Council ' 03 MAR 2010 '
Green Sheet NO: 3100796
; Contact Person & Phone: � ' Department Sent To Person Initial/Date
, Marcia Moermond �, y � a Counca '
, � , I Council Deparhne¢t Director
, Assign 2 Ciri Clerk ' Citv Clerk '
' Must Be on Council Agenda by (Date): i, Number 3 '
For
, Routing 4 '
� Doa Type: RESOLUTION i Order . 5; '
E-DOCUment Required: Y
Document Contact:
ConWct Phone:
ToWI # of Signature Pages _(Clip All Locations for Signature)
Action
Resolution approving the January ] 9, 2010 decisions of the Legislative Hearing Officer for Appeals of Certificate of Occupancy
Deficiency Lists and Denial of Building Permits to Replace Egress Windows for the followmg: 1752-1754 Hague Avenue and 1756
Sims Avenue.
Recommendations: Approve (A) or Reject (R)
Planning Commission
CIB Committee
Civil Service Commissian
Personal Service Contrects Must Answer the Following Questions:
1 Has this person/firm ever worked under a contract for this department?
Yes No
2. Has this person/firm ever heen a city employee�
Yes No
3. Does this person/frm possess a skill not normally possessed by any
current city employee?
Yes No
Explain all yes answers on separete sheet and atWCh to green sheet.
initiating Probiem, Issues, Opportunity (Who, What, When, Where, Why):
Advantages If Approved:
DisadvanWges If Approved:
DisadvanWges If Not Approved:
Total Amount of
Transaction:
Funding Source:
Financial Information:
(Explain)
CostlRevenue Budgeted:
Activity Number:
March 3, 2010 3:35 PM Page 1
10-256
MINUTES OF THE LEGISLATNE HEARING OFFICER
ON APPEALS OF LETTERS OF DEFICIENCY,
VACANT BUILDING REGISRATION NOTICES & FEES
AND DENIAL OF BUILDING PERMITS
Tuesday, January 19, 2010
Room 330 City Hall, 15 Kellogg Blvd. West
Marcia Moermond, Legislative Hearing Officer
The hearing was called to order at 1:35 p.m.
STAFF PRESENT: Leanna Shaff, Department of Safety and Inspections (DSI) — Fire; Mary
Erickson and Mai Vang, City Council Offices
Appeal of Stephen Sutton to a Certificate of Occupancy Deficiency List for property at
1752-1754 Haeue Avenue.
No one appeared at the hearing. Ms. Shaff said the owners were appealing the sashes and they
asked for an extension to August 1, 2010 which she felt was excessive because of the winter cold.
1'754 Hague Ave — Ms. Moermond granted a 4.5-inch variance on the openable height of the egress
bedroom window on the 3` floor.
1752 Hague Ave — Ms. Moermond granted a 1.5-inch variance on the openable height of the egress
window in the second bedroom and a 6-inch variance on the openable height of the egress window
in the fourth bedroom.
Ms. Moermond recommended denying the appeal on the window sashes and extension granted to
March 1, 2010.
4. Appeal of Daniel Huneke to a Certificate of Occupancy Deficiency List for property at 1756
Sims Avenue
(Continued from Jan. 5)
Daniel Huneke, appellant, appeared. Mr. Huneke said he faxed information on this date which went
to Ms. Shaff.
Ms. Moermond stated that the first hearing was held on January 5, 2010 and laid over to this date.
She was anticipating a list of questions and items that would clarify the concerns that Mr. Huneke
had about what the individual items meant.
Mr. Huneke said Items 15, 22, 23, 25 and 27 are basically done. Ms. Moermond told Ms. Shaff that
she would have to check on the locks and doors. Ms. Shaff said she was given the residential
heating report and the smoke detector affidavit which are fine. The smoke detector affidavit lists
Units 1, 2 and 3.
With regard to Item 27, Ms. Shaff said it should be a duplex. Over the years DSI has received
numerous complaints that iYs being used as a triplex. It needs to be de-converted so it looks like a
duplex. Mr. Huneke stated that the de-conversion is completed. He showed photos of the house
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January 19, 2010 Property Code Minutes Page 2
and said there are two totally separate aparhnents with a mechanical room inbetween them and a
stairway that goes to the upper level. The day before he closed on the house in 2005 is when he
found out it was listed as a duplex but it was being sold to him as a triplex with three separate units.
He called the city to inquiry about the discrepancy and the city didn't know the reason for this. He
was told he could fill out an application to make it a triplex, which he did at a cost of $1,000. The
requirements were then changed and he didn't meet those requirements. He's been renting the
upstairs unit and one of the downstairs units in order to stay legal. He showed Ms. Moermond a
diag of the windows and the dimensions and a fire escape drawing.
Mr. Huneke requested 60 days to complete the work due to an injury.
With regard to the egress windows, Mr. Huneke said the diagram shows the sizes of the windows
that are currently in the building and said even a large person would be able to get out the windows
in case of an emergency. He was able to get through one of the smallest double hung windows
himself when he was without a key for the building. It opens about 15 inches and is three feet off
the ground.
Mr. Huneke said the house has been on the market since November 1, 2009 and iYs a short sale.
He talked to his realtor on this date and the building is presently valued at under $100,000 but the
realtor said he will be lucky to get $50,000 because of the egress windows. He bought the property
for $245,000. Had it been approved as a triplex and he could have rented it as a triplex, he would
be breaking even.
Ms. Moermond asked about the de-conversion. Huneke responded that the refrigerator and stove
were removed from Unit 3, a studio unit, a long time ago. Most of the time he has been renting
Unit 2 which is a one bedroom unit.
Huneke referred to the item indicating there were two vehicles in the rear of the building with no
license plates. The day the inspector was there, there was only one vehicle. A police officer had
been at the property just before the inspector arrived. He felt the inspection was generated because
of the vehicles left by one of the tenants.
Ms. Shaff stated that the last inspection took place in November 2007 and was due for another
inspection on May 26, 2008. The clock begins ticking at the time of the first inspection, she said.
On November 4, 2009, there was a referral of the third unit being rented and that would be a trigger.
That is the date Inspector Thomas sent out the letter for the initial C of O inspection.
Ms. Moermond asked Ms. Shaff what DSI looks for with de-conversions. Ms. Shaff said in this
case it would include removal of the cabinets and possibly the sink.
Mr. Huneke added that most of the other items in the report have been delayed because he has been
laid up but he plans to take care of them. With regard to Item 6, he walked through the house and
did not find any cover plates missing. The lower units are not occupied and he was unsure about
missing cover plates.
Item 14 states there can not be more than two children in the one bedroom. It's a 12x12 bedroom
and an entire wall is a closet. There is a three-season porch and on the right side of the porch is a
48x69 inch window which is 18 inches off the floor. There is also an exit door and windows all
10-256
January 19, 2010 Property Code Minutes Page 3
around the porch. The windows are about 40 to 46 inches off the floor and go to the ceiling. There
are four children with rivo standard size beds in that room and it is the room which is being
condemned and where he's been told kids can not be sleeping.
Ms. Shaff said the Code requires that when people are sharing a bedroom, each person over one
year of age must be allowed 50 sq. ft. so for all four, 200 sq. ft. is required. Mr. Huneke explained
that the family living there had lost their previous four bedroom house and he's been doing as much
as possible to help them out. There are three bedrooms in this unit and eight people.
Ms. Moermond said she would have to go with DSI's recommendation as four people can not be in
a room of that size. She felt the department would be flexible in allowing the living room to be
used as sleeping quarters. Ms. Shaff added that would be ok as long as there is an adequate egress
window and smoke and carbon monoxide detectors.
The other issue would be the bedroom on the south side, Ms. Shaff said. Mr. Huneke said in order
to put a window in that room, the 12 ft. long closet with sliding doors would have to be tom out. In
the living room there are two windows that are 63x69 inches and are 22 inches off the floor and go
to the ceiling. The openable area is 16x22 inches. In response to a question of Ms. Shaff, Mr.
Huneke said the door in the living room goes directly outside.
Mr. Hueneke said his only other option, other than removing the tenants, is to allow them to use the
one-bedroom aparhnent in the basement as a sleeping room.
No. 17 on the list says to repair and maintain the door frame, Huneke said. He feels all the door
frames aze good and operable. He was only with the inspector some of the time as the police officer
was there at the same time.
Ms. Shaff said the notes indicate the inspector said he spent more than 1-1/2 hours with Huneke
plus the half-hour exit interview explaining the orders. As with past inspections, Huneke said he
was given a paper with code numbers. He looked up the numbers on line and got the same printout
which said to repair and maintain the door frame. Ms. Moermond told him this was the front entry
door and if the door had been kicked in, there may be problems with the frame. Huneke said the
Unit 2 door was kicked for entry when the tenant lost his keys and that was replaced with a steel
door.
Ms. Moermond asked about the vacate date in Item 2 with the condemnation. Ms. Shaff said it
should have been immediate.
With regard to Item 20, Mr. Huneke asked if he could build a step under the window to reach the
appropriate height. Ms. Moermond said he could and that would take care of the sill height but it
still does not open enough for someone to get out. The fire code says it must be 24 inches high and
she has never approved anything below 16 inches.
With regard to Item 27, Ms. Moermond said she would recommend that the Council amend the
order to include removal of cabinets and the sink to be cleaz that the building should be a duplex
and not a triplex.
January 19, 2010 Property Code Minutes
10-256
Page 4
For Item 22 with respect to the south bedroom, Ms. Moerxnond said she will recommend 30 days
from this date for getting the people into a sleeping space tt�at has an egress window or a door
immediately to the outside and the square feet per person still applies. This bedroom can not be
used for sleeping unless there is an immediate way to the outside.
With respect to Items 2 and 14, Mr. Huneke felt they were referring to the same bedroom but Ms.
Moermond and Shaff did not agree saying the south side bedroom has an egress window. No. 14
says iYs the middle bedroom.
The appeal was denied with the following exce tn ions:
Item 2- deny the appeal for Unit 1, south side bedroom, and grant 30 days to come into complaance
(cannot be used as a sleeping room);
Items 3- deny the appeal and grant an extension for 30 days.
Item 14 - deny the appeal on Unit 1, middle bedroom - reduce the number of occupants to two (2)
effective immediately (the living room may be used as a sleeping room);
Item 20 - deny the variance for egress bedroom windows in Unit 2, Unit labeled as Unit 3, and
grant 90 days to bring the windows into compliance. Deny a 3-inch variance on the sill height issue
and install permanently affixed steps to the wall;
Item Zl - deny the appeal on the sill height issue and install permanently affixed steps to the wall.
Item 22 — de-conversion of unit(s) shall include: 1) removal of unit(s) kitchen, e.g.: stove,
refrigerator, cabinets and sink; 2) this "uniY' shall no longer be rented individually, but may be
rented as space within one of the other units; and 3) if this option is pursued, the aforementioned
kitchen-less "unit" shall be connected to another unit by removal of deadbolt locks separating those
units (if they are present).
All other items must be completed by March 31, 2010.
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7anuary 5, 2010 Property Code Minutes
Page 16
Appeal of Daniel Huneke to a Certificate of Occupancy Deficiency List for property at 1756
Sims Avenue
Daniel Huneke, Appellant, appeared.
Ms. Moermond commented that Mr. Huneke had a fair number of items on his list and requested a
staff report from Ms. Shaff.
Ms. Shaff stated there was a Fire C of O conducted by Inspector James Thomas on November 20,
2009. She stated there were 27 items on the list and Mr. Huneke was refuting all of them.
Mr. Huneke said he did not have enough space to write them all down. Ms.Moermond commented
that could have used attachments. Mr. Huneke said he was in a hurry at the office when he'd filed
the form. He said it was getting late in the evening and "They didn't want to stay beyond 4:30 p.m."
Ms. Moermond advised "We're open until 5:00 p.m." Mr. Huenke stated he thought it was 430
p.m., and "They were anxious to get out."
Ms Shaff stated that some of the issues in the report had previously been before Ms. Moermond.
Ms. Shaff stated the property has been used as a triplex, at times. She noted that the house has been
used as a triplex, at times. She noted that in going back, the records reflect that Mr. Huneke has
been tagged for that before.
Mr. Huneke stated that when he had been before Marcia before, "We agreed that I could rent any
two of the three units that are in there, and so that's the way Pve been doing it. Pve been xenting
two units and thaYs why Pm losing about $8,000.00 a year on this house just because when I
bought the house, the day before I closed, I called the City because I found out the day before
closing that it was ..."
Ms. Moermond said, "LeYs not go there. LeYs go back to the list. I understand that and I have
some additional information for you on that. The first thing you listed in your appeal is the $25 fee
for appealing. You want it waived. I will not waive that fee. The next item having to replace the
windows in all of the bedrooms you have noted. Looking at the document, itself, Item 20, it says
that the window measures 15" in openable height, 39" in openable width." That is most certainly
too short in height and would need to be replaced. I have never recommended a variance with a 15"
height . So that will need to be addressed."
Mr. Huneke said "Pm trying to figure out which unit he is talking about here because there are
three— the units have a number over the door to the units. Ms. Moermond said it says Unit 2,
labeled as Unit 3. Mr. Huneke said `Right, but the Unit 2 has windows that go from that wa11 out to
here and they're about this high off the floor and they go to the ceiling. Ms. Moermond asked if he
could figure this out with a measuring tape. Ae responded, "Unit 3 is like that " She asked again if
he could figure it out with a measuring tape. Mr. Huneke said, "I could if I went and measured
them." Ms. Moermond said it sounded like a good idea. Mr. Huneke said `They go all the way
across the width of the room.' Ms. Moermond commented that "It sounds like these are
demonstrably different types of windows and they would have different measurements for the
window that has the measurements 15" in openable height by 39" in openable width. Your appeal
is denied. You will need to replace the window"
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January 5, 2010 Property Code Minutes Page 17
Mr. Huneke said he did not have the money to replace them. Ms. Moermond stated, "Ninety Days."
Mr. Huenke responded, "Okay. Then I will have to lose the tenant. The house will then sit there
because I cannot afford to keep the house and keep it heated if I don't have a tenant. Right now I
only have one tenant in there" Ms. Moermond stated, "Sir, if the cost of replacing a window to
make sure that the unit is safe is going to put you under, you're riding on a very thin margin. Mr.
Huneke said, "This is replacing, I said I'm losing $8,000 a year on this apartment because I can't
rent one of the aparhnents. I can only rent two." Ms. Moermond stated, "Sir, you bought yourself a
duplex and I have reviewed all of the records in the computer and the past minutes, and you believe
that at a couple of times somebody has represented to you that this could be used as a three plex. I
am finding nothing more than direction to you about how you could convert it to be a three-plex."
Mr. Huneke said, "When I was here the last time..."
Ms. Moermond said, "Hang on, and that you have explored your options, gone to the District
Council, gorie to the Board of Zoning Appeals, and there was a third venue. But they all turned you
down. What I said is I would look at it one last time to see if there was anything that could be done
and for one year, for one year you could use two out of the three units as rental, okay? At which
point, we need to figure this out. Here we are. You have been using two of the three units as rental.
Hopefully, not three of three. And, we're at a point right now where Pm going to say the order to
deconvert one of those three units is going to have to go into place."
Mr. Huneke stated "I don't have a refrigerator or stove in one of the units now. IYs, and thaYs why
I am wondering why you're saying Unit 2, labeled as 3 because Unit 2 is Unit 2. And that's the one
thaYs the one-bedroom that's the good window. Ms. Moermond said, "So is there no one living in
thatspace?"
Ms. Shaff asked, "Which one is Unit 3? Which is Unit 2. Is it the basement or the upstairs?" Mr.
Huneke said "There's two units in the basement, with the mechanical room in between them" Ms.
Shaff asked "And how many units are upstairs?" Mr. Huneke said "And there's one unit covering
the whole upstairs and the upstairs one in the only one that's rented right now."
Ms. Shaff asked "And that one has two kitchens?" Mr. Huneke said "That one has one kitchen. It
has two bathrooms but in here, he puts Unit 1 on all of these things. And he says to do stuff to
different, to the bathroom, but he doesn't say which bathroom he's talking about. A lot of this stuff
I don't lrnow what he's talking about." Ms. Moermond asked Mr. Huneke if he was present at the
time of the inspection. Mr. Huneke said "I was, but we just kept arguing back and forth about
everything and I didn't ... he was going through everything. He was typing on his computer and I
thought he was going to give me a list so that it would be specific. But all he gives me is a
statement, like a code statement, and says Unit 1 and the statement is like a code statement."
Ms. Moermond read, "All fixtures must be maintained with protective globes ..."
Mr. Huneke said, "Where is he talking about? Because I don't know what fixture he is talking
about because I went through there and I don't know what he is talking about, which fixture he is
talking about because they all have stuff on them thaY s been there all along. If they're broken, I've
replaced them. The #13, it says secure the toilet to the floor. There's rivo different bathrooms. As
far as I know, they're on the floor, they're there. They're not moving all around. So, I don't
know what he is talking about there."
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January 5, 2010 Property Code Minutes Page 18
Ms. Moermond said, "So when you were doing the walk-through the building with him, it wasn't
clear to you which toilet he was talking about?" Mr. Huneke responded "No, because he didn't say
anything during...a lot of this stuff we never even talked about." Ms. Moermond said, "But you
said you azb ed with tum?" Mr. Huneke said "I didn't know a lot of this stuff until we got there
because we were arguing so much about all of the windows, back and forth and everything."
Ms. Moermond said, "So you're looking for clarification today, then?"
Mr. Huneke "Yeah. Well, I called him up. And iYs written. I wrote it in there on Item #4 there. I
called him up a day or two later to ask for specifics on what, to explain all of these things. And he
says to me, `Pm not going to spend a lot of time going over each item.' 7ust read what it says and
take care of them. But when I read what it says, I don't lrnow most of these things, I don't know
what it is he wants me to fix. And iYs like, this thing here, #..."
Ms. Moermond said, "Mr. Huneke, perhaps you could put together a list of questions because I look
at this and, maybe I look at fhese things all of the time, but I know you've been in this business for a
while so you've seen your fair share of them. I don't know what's confusing when I look at `Repair
Illegal Light Fixture in basement near washing machine.' I'm not getting it."
Mr. Huneke, "Let me tell you about that one. There's a light above the washing machine. There is
no switch in the house, anywhere, for that light, so it stays on all of the time. Available, so when
tenants walk in, the lighYs on all of the time, but it can't be turned of£ So I put one of these little
screw-in things in there, with a pull chain on, so they could turn it off and then we don't waste the
electricity. So now he wants me to replace, which I tried to do back when I first bought the house, I
tried to put a switch in there. And when I took the light out, it was. I wanted to have a switch, like
a pull chain, where it was built into the socket, not just the screw-in thing into the socket. And
when I got it all apart to look at it to see, to put a new thing in there, there were a lot more wires in
there than what would normally there. And so there's no way to trace where the wires are going,
where I could put a switch on the wall for it."
Ms. Moermond stated, "ThaYs why you hire an electrician. And, in fact, this is work that would
require a permit in a rental property. Ms. Shaff also responded, "Absolutely. It requires a permit in
any property...a homeowner can do in their own house of record, but..."Ms Moermond, "Here's
the rub and I lrnow that Inspector Thomas was more than likely thinking this is that when people
have the comments that you're having, sometimes iYs because they do not want to do any of it."
Mr. Huneke said, "That is totally wrong because I have tried to keep up this apartment as good as.
Every time a tenant has called and said something is wrong. You could call my tenant. And you
could ask him, when they call and say something is wrong how long does it take me to get over
there? I'm usually there the same day to fix or correct whatever thaYs wrong. The things that are
listed here—the cracked window. They didn't say anything about the cracked window and I didn't
know it was there until he got there and saw it. And they had just put tape along the window. So
you lmow. I didn't lrnow it was there. But all of these things here. Electrical cover plates on all
outlets. As far as I knew, they were all there because I went through that and I checked them in the
past. Now, what outlet he's talking about, I don't laiow. It would be nice if he would say N.E.
corner of living room, or something like that, when he puts the entry in here to tell me where it is.
This deal with the lampshade, or covers. What light is he talking about. Just about all of these ..."
10-256
January 5, 2010 Property Code Minutes
Page 19
Ms. Moermond asked, "Have you gone through and checked so if it says replace all electrical
plates...but did you walk through and check on it?" Mr. Huneke responded, "I haven't done
anything on this since I got it. Because when he came through, during the time, from the time he
went through. First of all, I was out of town. I've been out of town on business since the 15�" of
December until the end of the year. Before that time, I was in class because I do taaces now. I've
been in classes during all those times where I haven't had time. Ms. Moermond asked, "Have you
gone to the place to look at this list. Mr. Huneke said, "No."
Ms Moermand stated "I think iYs really incumbent upon you to try to figure out some of this. If
iYs saying that iYs broken switch covers, a simple walk through would be able to confirm for you
where those are and are not located, if there even are any. I don't feel assured right now that you
are speaking from a place like, Oh, well there were light covers on every single one of those. I went
through the whole place and iYs all fine. I'm not hearing you say that."
Mr. Huneke responded, "There used to be. I don't know where they are now." Ms. Moermond said,
"You need to do a walk-through and double check all of this before I can talk to about whaYs going
on here. I'm much more concerned, frankly, that Item 2 says that the bedroom is condemned
because it has no egress window. Is somebody sleeping in there?"
Mr. Huneker said "Item 2 is Unit 1, okay. Unit 1 has three bedrooms. Now the one that I think that
he is talking about on this one is that it has one whole of the bedroom, a 12' wall, that is all window.
But that window goes out onto the three-season porch. Now the only way to put an egress window
in there that doesn't go onto that porclr—it has two, ox those a whole wall of closets thaYs on the
outside of the house thaYs up on, you know, iYs like second floor to that back yard. So I would
have to put in a window and a stairway. Yeah, Pd have to rip out one of the closets, put in a
window and a stairway that goes down outside of the house, with a floor on that. Because he says
that these windows along here that go onto a three season porch which has the door going outside
doesn't count."
Ms. Moermond said, "No, it doesn't." Mr. Huneke said, "I can't afford to do all this. I do not have
the money." Ms. Moermond stated "You haven't brought me specific enough stuff today. And you
haven't checked to see what items are and aren't valid to your own way of thinking, let alone
something else. Pd like you to come back with a specific list after you have looked at the place. I
will tell you right now that that room cannot be used as a sleeping room until this is resolved."
Mr. Huneke said, "Okay. Now how is it supposed to be resolved without putting windows in it?
Now, I talked to somebody about getting a variance on it. The house has been this way since I
bought it. It was inspected two years ago for the same thing and."
Ms. Moermond, "Sir, Pm saying I will keep it open for a short length of time for you to put some
more specifics into your appeal about where you are and aren't understanding the orders. But it's
incumbent upon you to do the walk through of the entire building checking all of these things, so
that the questions you pose are grounded, not in the ether, but in concrete fact about what exists
there. Okay? With respect to this room being used as a sleeping room, it cannot be used as a
sleeping room right now. And that is a condition for me continuing this matter. Okay? So until we
decide the whole set and I decide one way or the other, you can't use this as a sleeping room."
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January 5, 2010 Property Code Minutes Page 20
Mr. Huneke said, "Then what do I, I can't kick out my tenant immediately." Ms. Moermond said,
"Sir, this can't be used as a sleeping room. I can't problem solve how you're going to handle that.
But if the tenant can't get unmediately out to the outside, I will...we're going to have to figure this
out. I'm no deciding it forever, but right now, until we can get specifics on everything else and put
together a work plan, I'm not just going to give it to you."
Mr. Huneke stated "I just can't kick out my tenant in the middle of winter time with no place to go."
Ms. Moermond said, "It sounds like there's three units in this place. There looks like there's plenty
of places to go. And you say that two of them are vacant."
Mr. Huenke `But he's said the windows in all the units are the same. He's saying the windows in
Unit 2 aren't good and the windows in Unit 3 aren't good."
Ms. Moermond "Every single sleeping area has bad windows?" Mr. Hueneke replied, "ThaYs what
he's saying in there."
Ms. Shaff "That's #20, you already denied."
Ms. Moermond, "What about Unit 2, labeled as Unit 3, or was it the other way around?"
Ms. Shaff, "That was #20."
Ms. Moermond, "Yeah, he didn't put any specifics in the order about what the sill height actually
was. Am I missing that?"
Ms. Shaff, "On #20?" Ms. Moermond said, "21."
Ms. Shaff, "My notes say, see #20, it would be the same."
Ms. Moermond "So iYs 51 inches? I will recommend that the Council grant it. What would that be,
a 3" variance?"
Ms. Shaff, "A 3" variance, however thaYs the window that only opens to 15" high, so replacement
Mr. Huneke, "Which unit is that? If iYs in Unit 2, Pve climbed through that window."
Ms. Moermond, "Unit 2, labeled as Unit 3. So it sounds like you need to get some new numbers,
too.>
Mr. Huneke "Unit 3, the door coming into Unit 3 has the #3 above it. The door going into Unit 2
has a#2 above it. And the one upstairs is #1 and has a 1 up above it, so I don't lrnow what he's
talking about when he writes this up. I don't know what he's saying about Unit 2 labeled as 3. I
don't understand what it is he's getting at."
Ms. Moermond, "Mr. Huneke, how long before you can go through and come up with something
definitive on this list?"
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January 5, 2010 Property Code Minutes Page 21
Mr. Huneke "I'd like a month on it, at least. Because right now Pm in tax season. Pm working 40-
50-60 hours with taaces now."
Ms. Moermond "You want a month to walk through the property because iYs been a month that you
haven't done it. I want concrete information for an appeal"
Mr. Huneke, "Okay, just a walk through, or try and fix up some of these? I should be able in two
weeks, I can get it done."
Ms. Moermond, "Pm going to lay the matter over for two weeks and that sleeping room, be ready to
have it vacated then. I won't tell you for the next two weeks you have to do it, but it could be on
that Tuesday that you will."
Mr. Hueneke "They have to just move out, they can't?"
Ms. Moermond, "We'll figure that out on that Tuesday, but I would say be ready for that
eventuality. It could happen and you should have a fall-back plan.
Mr. Hueneke `Because this tenant has been with me for a year and one-half-two years now and to
kick them out." Ms. Moermond, "I get that sir. I have a lot of people waiting. Pm giving you a
second wack at this by letting you redraft an appeal that has some meat on the bones. So take that
opportunity and give me something I can work with. Because right now I don't have anything.
Mr. Hueneke asked, "Do we have a date?"
Ms. Moermond responded, "I'm going to do a two-week layover here. So you got two weeks to
bring something back. It will be on Tuesday, January 19, 2Q 10. And I would like it a day ahead of
time so I can look at it before we're sitting here."
Mr. Huneke, "I bring this to room 310? A different appeal, or a list of what I've done, or what I
see there?"
Ms. Moermond responded, "I want to know if there's a problem, like you mentioned with the light
fixture above the washing machine. Give me some details on it. Articulate far me whaYs going on
with it."
Mr. Hueneke asked, "If the fixture is there, but it just doesn't have a switch to turn it off and the
light stays on all of the time, is that okay?"
Ms. Moermond replied, "No."
Mr. Huneke said, "IYs what I was wondering? You know, cause otherwise all Pd have to do is take
that little thing off."
Ms. Moermond "And it sounds like that's what your question is. You're saying is that okay. Give
me questions like that and I can work with it."
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7anuary 5, 2010 Property Code Minutes
Page 22
Mr. Huneke, "I was just wondering why it wouldn't be okay for the light to be on all of the time so
the tenants can come in there?"
Ms. Moermond replied `Because the International Residential Code says it can't be. That isn't safe
circumstance. Based on what you just said when you took the light apart, and not knowing where
all the wires went to, that makes me really concerned."
Mr. Huneke said "The thing is it has more wires. Instead of, like normally a light has two wires
coming in, a hot and a cold. I'm an electrical engineer. So it's got a hot and a cold dual light. And
one of those, the hot one goes to the switch. This one has about 4 or 5 wires going in there, all kind
of blended together, connected to the same thing. And so I don't know which one goes to the light.
All the walls are finished around it. The ceiling is all finished."
Ms. Moermond responded, "Okay, you need an electrician. Legally, you need an electrician.
Problem-wise you need an electrician. We'll see you in two weeks."
Laid over to January 19, 2010.