08-1111Council File #�
Green Sheet # 30(e 0 335
Presented by
��
RESOLUTION
MINNESOTA
WHEREAS, the Legislative Hearing Officer noted the following conditions exist on the Wine On Sale, Malt On Sale
(Strong), Entertainment (B), Restaurant (B) — more than 12 seats, Catering Add-on and Food Vehicle license(s) held
by Dara Thai Inc., doing business as Dara Thai Restaurant (Song Thao, President), 769 Milton Street:
4
5
6
�
$
9
IQ
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
ig
19
2�
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
t.
2.
3.
4.
5
6.
�.
s.
9.
io.
I l.
12.
The sale of Wine and Beer will take place only in co�junction with the sale and service offood.
The kitchen shall remain open and food service shal] be provided at a1S times that wine and beee aze being served.
Licensee will provide annually wpies of gross receipts from the sales of food, wine, and beer, showing at least sixTy (60) percent
attributable to the sale of food.
My remodeling or expansion of [his facility must be reviewed by DSI prior to beginning a project.
Licensee wil] not allow any loitering behind the building of the licensed business.
The licensee shall build an interior service area in the back of his business (along Chatsworth Sveet) that would include a sound-
proof wall which would prevent music being played inside to be heard by those outside. The entertainment license, if approved, will
not be issued unti] this condrtion is met and the building permit is finaled.
The licensee must never prop open back doors during business hours (on the Chatsworth SVeet side).
The licensee may not dispose of beer bottles into his dumpster between the hours of 8:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m
Trash collection for this busmess is allowed to take place only between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 9:00 p.m.
The licensee must maintain video surveillance cameras in the front and back of the licensed premises. The number, qualiry, and
placemeni of cameras must be approved by SPPD. License holder will keep the video surveillance cameras in good working order.
Tapes/recordings must be maintained for a minimum of 30 days and must be available immediately upon request by a license
inspector or tha St. Pa�l Police Dept.
The license holder shall make sure that all exterior refuse, glass and trash that is on the premises, from the front door of the business
to Chatsworth Street, is removed from the Iicensed premises on a daily basis.
This establishment must close for business no later than 12:00 midnight, each night of the week. The Iicensee may cequest a review
of this condition after six months; a�d
WHEREA5, the Legislative Hearing Officer recommends thaY the application for a 2 AM Closing license and that
the request for the removal of Conditio� # 12 from above stating that This establishment must close for business no
later than 12:00 midnight each night of the week. The licensee may reguest a review of this condition after sdx
months, should be referred to an Administrative Law Judge;
THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Council of the City of Saint Paul hereby refers this license application to
an Administrative Law Judge.
Yeas Nays Absent
Bostrom /
Carter i/
Harris /
Helgen
Lantry ,/
Stark ,i
Thune �/
�
Adopted by Co�ncil: Date ��j/S�Q�
Adoption Certified by Council Seaetary
By: ___�!1! '
Approved Date �° Z��
By: �--
Requested by Department oE
�
Form Approved by City Attorney
By:
Form Approved by Mayor for Submission to Council
By:
0.�-ii�r
� Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet �
� DepartmenVOfficelCouncil: ' Date initiated:
1 CO-Council oz-��T-0$ Green Sheet NO: 3060335
� I Deoartment SernToPerson Initial/Date
� Contact Person 8 Phone:
Marcia Moermond � y a,Couocu �
� 266$570 � 1 iComcil DeparMent D'vector
�� � 2 Ctiry Clerk CStv Clerk I
Must Be on Councii Agenda by (Date): Number j 3 �
15-0CT-08 For
Routing 4 0
I Doc. Type: RESOIUTION Order 5 O
E-DOCUment Required: Y
Document Contact: ��n Birkholz
ConWd Phone: 266-8673
Total # of Signature Pages _(Clip Atl Locations for Signature)
Action Requested:
Refeaing the license applicarion of Dara Thai Restaurant, 769 Milton Street, to an Administrative Law Judge, per the Legislarive
Aearing Officer.
Recommendations: Approve (A) or Reject (R): Personal Service Contracts Must Answer the Following Questions:
Planning Commission 1. Has this person/firm ever worked under a contract for this department?
CIB Committee Yes No
Civil Service Commission 2. Has this person/firm ever been a city employee?
Yes No
3. Does this person/flrm possess a skill not normally possessed by any
current city employee?
Yes No
F�cplain all yes answers on s¢parate sheet and attach to green�sheet.
Initiating Problem, Issues, Opportunity (Who, What, When, Where, Why):
AdvantageslfApproveds
DisadvanWges If Approved:
Disadvantages If Not Approved:
7otal Amount of
TransaMion: CosURevenue Budgeted:
Funding Source: Activity Number: .
Financial Information:
(Explain)
October 17, 2008 11:11 AM Page 1
D�3�II I/
LICENSE HEARING MINUTES
Dara Thai Restaurant at 769 Milton Street
Friday, August 15, 2008, 10:00 a.m.
330 City Hall, 15 Kellogg Boulevazd West
Mazcia Moermond, Legislative Hearing Officer
The hearing was called to order at 10:08 a.m.
Staff Present: Christine Rozek and Krisfina Schweinler, Department of Safety and Inspections
(DSI); and Jean Birkholz, Council Research
Others Present: Song Thao, president; Chris Yang, restaurant manager; Jeff Arnold, property
manager; Tate Danielson Castillo, Thomas-Dale / District 7 Planning Council; Grace Ngeh,
neighbor; and Paul Holmgren, neighbor
Request for License: 2 AM Closing; also a request to remove the following condition: This
establis6ment must close for business no later than 12:00 midnight each night of the week. The
licensee may request a review of this condition after six months.
Ms. Moermond stated that this is an informal legislative hearing for a license application. This is a
Class N notification which means that the neighborhood gets notified and has a chance to voice its
concerns. If anyone has a concern, it automatically triggers a heazing. Other Class N Licenses include:
auto sales, auto repair, cabaret, etc.—things that have an immediate impact on the neighborhood. The
City received three (3) letters of concern regarding the issuance of this license. Ultimately, there aze
three (3) possible outcomes from this heazing: 1) Ms. Moermond may recommend to the City Council
that they issue this license without any conditions; 2) she may recommend to the City Council that they
issue this license with agreed upon conditions; or 3) she may recommend to the City Council that they
not issue this license but refer it to an administrative law judge for a further hearing and findings.
Ms. Moermond will begin with a staff report. Staff will be asked to explain their review of the
application and will also explain their recommendation. Then, she wili ask the applicant to talk about
the business plan. Next, she will hear from those who are here in support of the issuance of the license
and those with concerns about the issuance of this license; and, she will review the letters f emails that
were sent regarding this application.
Ms. Kristina Schweinler, Department of Safety and Inspections (DSI), reported that the usual reviews by
Building, Environmental Health, Fire, Licensing and Zoning are not applicable because this is an
existing business. Existing conditions are as follows:
1. The sale of Wine and Beer will take place only in con}unction with the sale and service of food.
2. The kitchen shall remain open and food service shall be provided at all times that wine and beer
are being served.
3. Licensee will provide annual copies of gross receipts from the sales of food, wine and beer,
showing at least sixty (60) percent amibutable to the sale of food.
4. Any remodeling or expansion of this facility must be reviewed by DSI prior to beginning a
project.
5. Licensee wi11 not allow any loitering behind the building of the licensed business.
6. The licensee shall build an interior service area in the back of his business (along Chatsworth
Street) that would include a sound-proof wall which would prevent music being played inside to
0�-l�j(
be heazd by those outside. The entertainment license, if approved, will not be issued until this
condition is met and the building permit is finalized.
7. The licensee must never prop open back doors during business hours (on the Chatsworth Street
side).
8. The licensee may not dispose of beer bottles into his dumpster between the hours of 8:00 p.m. to
8:00 a.m.
9. Trash collection for this business is allowed to take place only between the hours of 7:00 a.m.
and 9:OQ p.m.
10. The licensee must maintain video surveillance cameras in the front and back of the licensed
premises. The number, quality and placement of cameras must be approved by the Saint Paul
Police Department (SPPD). License holder will keep the video surveillance cameras in good
working order. Tapes/recordings must be maintained for a minimum of thirty (30) days and
must be available immediately upon request by a license inspector of the Saint Paul Police
Department (SPPD).
11. The license holder shall make sure that a11 exterior refuse, glass and trash that is on the premises,
from the front door of the business to Chatsworth Street, is removed from the licensed premises
on a daily basis.
12. This establishment must close for business no later than 12:00 midnight each night of the week.
This licensee may request a review of this condition after six (6) months.
The Department of Safety and Inspections recommends: 1) Denial of the application for a 2 AM
Closfng license; and 2) Approval of the request to remove existing license condition #12.
Ms. Moermond asked staff if there has ever been a liquor license at this location. Ms. Schweinler
replied that there has not just wine and beer.
Ms. Moermond asked the applicant why he wants to change from closing at 12 midnight to 2 AM. Mr.
Yang replied that they want to stay open later on Fridays and Saturdays and special holidays, not the
week nights. Customers come in later and want to eat later. A special holiday would be like
Thanksgiving. Also, there aze a lot of out-of town people in Saint Paul for the Fourth of July. Ms.
Moermond asked about the business' peak hours. Mr. Yang responded that currently, because of day
light saving time, most customers don't come in unti1930-10 p.m.
Mr. Yang commented that certain things have happened that have gotten them on the wrong side of the
neighbors. Grace had requested that bottles should not be picked up before 8 a.m.; sometimes they had
been picked up at 530 a.m. Mr. Yang requested that they not come before 8 a.m. He got a letter from
the management saying that bottles would not be picked up before 8 a.m. In June, 2008, they moved the
garbage cans inside the building towards the back door but the back door isn't sealed very tightly, and
so, the sound of taking out bottles was heard. Now, they just put everything on the ground until
morning. Also, the neighbors complained about noise. Mr. Yang handed out a sheet of sound readings
taken by Brian Raykowski. Ramsey County Sheriff Deputy, Kou Vang, requested him to come out to
do the readings. Mr. Kou Vang does off-duty security for Daza Thai on Fridays and Saturdays. Mr.
Raykowski took the readings while the music was playing. His reading results aze:
Outside front door: 68 dec.
At the end of the restaurant by the window: 71 dec.
Back of the building by said complainer's house: under 60 dec.
Inside restaurant: 88-94 dec.
His readings were taken with a Radio Shack Sound Level Meter model# 33-2050.
08�l� J f
Mr. Tait Danielson Castillo, Director, District 7 Planning Council reported that their meeting was held at
the restaurant on July 16, 2008. A total of 50 people were present, 40 of which actually live / work / or
own property in District 7. `I`he meeting oudined what people thought were pros and cons about the
restaurant. There was some confusion about what people thought they were voting for. The first
question they voted on was to grant the 2 AM Closing, to which there was a solid "Nd' vote. The
second question was a compromise to allow Daza Thai to stay open until 1 a.m. but to put a condition on
the license to stop all entertainment, food service and alcohol at midnight (a compromise that developed
from discussion regarding Destiny Cafe at 995 UniversiTy Avenue, as well). Thai question received the
most support votes: 1 b. Most people there were looking for some sort of compromise, realizing that
Dara Thai is in a mall — a business azea but close to residents. There were still a lot of problems with
noise and whether they were abiding with the closing time. Also, there was a question about whether
there had been any police reports or violations up to this point. Ms. Moermond asked Mr. Danielson
Castillo how the neighborhood discussion went for Destiny Caf� as opposed to Daza Thai. Mr.
Danielson Castillo responded that it went the same way. Attendance was lower, 20 — 30 people. Ms.
Moermond asked Mr. Danielson Castillo to characterize the mixed vote with a lot of abstentions (16 in
Support / 14 in Opposition / 20 in Abstention). Mr. Danielson Castillo responded that the best way to
characterize it is to say that it's a very frustrating situation with a lot of opinions. Everyone wants to see
business thrive in the mall; at the same time, they're seeing a business that is not your average business.
The district council recognizes that and has struggled with the idea of restaurants operating as nightclubs
for a while (Destiny Cafe; Dara Thai). The district council also recognizes the problems they've had in
the North End with Asian Cuisine that also operated in that fashion. The district council is happy that
the City Council passed an ordinance that doesn't allow Entertainment B licenses or beer and wine
licenses; it does allow the 2 AM Closing. Enforcement is what the district council struggles with the
most with a lot of licenses. The neighbors don't know if the police are responding properly or quickly
enough to actually see what's going on. The City is stuck in a situation where if there's no violation and
no police reports, iYs hard to know exactly what's happening. As much as the district counci] likes long
conditions lists, iYs stuck in a situation where if the police aren't catching and enforcing it, then it's just
a condition listed on a piece of paper. Many times, an abstention means that someone doesn't want to
get involved anymore; they'd just rather see how it plays out.
Ms. Moermond asked Mr. Danielson Castillo to talk about neighborhood/site configuration with respect
to the layout of Destiny versus that of Dara Thai. Ms. Danielson Castillo responded that they aze similar
in how they are configured to the neighborhood. There's a slightly larger distance between Destiny
Cafe and the residents; there's a parking lot, a chain link fence and Sherburne Avenue between them.
Destiny Cafe opens up to the parking lot; it doesn't open up to University Avenue. Dara Thai is closer.
Dara Thai is at the end of the mall, next to the bowling alley which is now closed. Dara Thai opens up
to the front but there's a door in the back. That door opens up to the a11ey, a boulevard, Chatsworth
Street, a boulevard, then, Grace's house.
Mr. Danielson Castillo expressed that the district council feels stuck in the middle. IYs a difficult type
of scenario.
Ms. Moermond returned to the vote situation. She asked if there was a similar vote distribution in
neighborhood feelings about Destiny Cafe as with Dara Thai. Mr. Danielson Castillo replied that he
didn't recall the actual vote distribution but he assumes that it was pretty similaz. There's a strong
concern among neighbors about any kind of nightclub — the entertainment, especially, which brings
more noise at later times.
08-�f I i
Ms. Cnace Ngeh, Daza Thai's closest neighbor, addressed the hearing in opposition. She stated that she
is concerned about noise and about calling the police about noise because by the time the police get
there, the noise may be stopped. Also, she thinks that the sound readings may have been taken when
there was no music there. (The readings were taken at approximately 1130 pm., Friday, July 25, 2008.)
Mr. Yang responded that he was with Mr. Raykowski when the readings were taken and he instructed
staff to turn the music to the max. Ms. Ngeh stated that the readings were not done on the day that she
called the police, so, she doesn't think there is any value in the readings. She thinks that it's Mr. Yang's
job is to follow the conditions on his license. Mr. Yang responded that he is trying everything he can to
comply.
Ms. Ngeh wanted to clarify that Mr. Yang said that dumping the bottles happened before the hearing; it
happened after the hearing. She actually talked to the truck driver who picks up the bottles; it was 530
a.m. and she was in her nightgown. She told him that there were conditions on the license that said he
was not supposed to pick up the botties at 5:30 a.m. The truck driver said that he Mr. Yang had not
informed him. On July 16, 2008, Mr. Yang said in the meeting that after Ms. Ngeh spoke with him, he
spoke with them and they haven't been picking up the bottles that early. Ms. Ngeh had asked Mr. Yang
if that was not a violation of one of the conditions. Mr. Yang had not responded.
Ms. Ngeh wanted all to understand that the neighbors are in favor of businesses. They want their
neighborhood to grow like other neighborhoods. There are more than fifteen (15) businesses in the mall
and the neighbors are not having a problem with any of them because they close at or before 10 p.m.
Their businesses do not produce noise; Daza Thai is the only one that produces noise.
Ms. Ngeh stated that she was surprised to hear at the meeting that one of the events at Daza Thai
includes bringing in young girls to do modeling shows. Other people told of going there to dance with
their families. Mr. Yang had explained to them that Dara Thai's entertainment would be just light music
but he failed to tell them that it could involve dancing, singing, modeling shows, renting it out far
special events, etc. At the meeting, Mr. Yang stated that his security officer goes out to monitor sound
levels. She asked the security officer how often he goes out to monitor sound levels. The officer
responded that he goes out four (4) times. She asked now long he stays out. The officer replied that he
stays out for three (3) minutes, going out to his squad car waiting to see who will come out to dump
things in the garbage.
Ms. Ngeh went on to say that most people who were at the district meeting in support of Dara Thai do
not live within a block of Dara Thai. These people were not able to testify about the noise coming from
Dara Thai. The last time that Dara Thai had a hearing here, the engineer commented that something
should be done with the ceiling because the ceiling was not soundproofed. The noise leaking out could
be from the ceiling and the roof but nothing has been done about this problem. Soundproofing was done
on only 1/3 of the wall facing Chatsworth Street. She thinks that violates one of the conditions.
Ms. Ngeh stated that Dara Thai behaves as a club not a restaurant. Loud noise, dancing and shows make
it appear as a club, not a restaurant. They may have good intentions to promote social gatherings,
including dancing and modeling shows but that goal is best set in an azea that is not in very close
proximity to residential dwellings. The noise and commotion from Dara Thai on Friday, Saturday and
Sunday nights greatly impacts those who live very close to the restaurant. The 2 AM Closing would
mean that neighbors would have to live with that noise unti12:30 a.m. or 3 a.m. Daza Thai is not able to
follow the conditions for a 12 midnight closing, how is it going to follow the conditions for a 2 AM
Closing. Who would monitor Daza Thai's compliance late at night? Ms. Ngeh stated that she has talked
with Mr. Yang about reducing the noise level and bottle emptying but he never listens to the neighbors'
n
�����
concems. She has called and talked with Chrisfine Rozek many times about her complaints. She also
has spoken with Ted Dennison, who directed her to Commander Tina, who told her to call the police.
She is not awaze of the outcome from calling the police but she was told that one of the outcomes was
called "unfounded: ' Once she heazd bottles being emptied at 1225 am.; she called the restaurant and
told them that they were supposed to close at 12 midnight and they were not supposed to be emptying
bottles at this time. At 12:27 a.m., someone from Daza Thai called back and when she answered the
phone, no one spoke to her. Her caller I.D. noted that it was from Daza Thai. She is concerned about
what might happen to her neighborhood due to constant lack of sleep because of the noise from the
restaurant. Crime might increase due to their late closing time. She stated that it was not fair that some
of the people at the district meeting worked at the restaurant; they don't live in the neighborhood, but
they voted.
Ms. Moermond asked Ms. Ngeh for a copy of the notes that she has been reading from for the record.
Mr. Tait Danielson Castillo clarified that no one who works at Daza Thai was allowed to vote at the
district meeting. They are part of the abstention count.
Ms. Ngeh added that the reason that she is the only one here testifying today is because she is directly
behind the business. Her doctor recommended that she should have earplugs because she isn't getting
enough sleep because of the noise from Dara Thai on the weekends. She doesn't think that she should
have to sleep with earplugs because someone else wants to make a profit. She has put a lot of money
into her home and she pays taYes. This is not fair to her. The neighbors are fed up. They say that no
one listens to them; no one cares. There's no need to come. They don't think that coming here will
make a difference; it hasn't in the past. Jonathan Green would have been here, too, but he just had
major surgery and cannot drive.
Ms. Moermond reviewed the letter of concern from the Tagues. They indicate that they have kept a log
of times and dates that they have had to listen to loud music, which their letter lists.
Ms. Moermond heard from those in support. Mr. Jeff Arnold, property manager, noted that Dara Thai
has been a tenant for the past four (4) years; however, it has had different managers, some of them were
quite bad. They were very disrespectful of the neighbars' concerns. He feels that since Chris has taken
over, he has been genuinely trying to accommodate the neighbors. He put in some sound proofing,
which Mr. Arnold witnessed being installed; it is very well built. He has monitored noise at 1130 p.m.
on Fridays and Saturdays at Ms. Ngeh's house and he has never heard noise. He also had Mr. Yang
dump bottles while he stood neaz Ms. Ngeh's house. He heard that quite clearly. He advised Mr. Yang
to move the bottle container somewhere else or to not dump the bottles at all. He added that he wanted
everyone to be happy; however, he didn't know how to make that happen.
Mr. Paul Holmgren stated that he didn't want to speak either in support or opposition. He appealed for
common sense. He added that Daza Thai is abiding by all of the conditions. The culture is much
different from the American culture. He noted that he shares the noise concerns. He has stood on the
west side of Chatsworth, however, and has heard nothing. He supports Chris and the Dara Thai
business; he'd like it to remain in Saint Paul instead of them taking it out to the suburbs.
Ms. Rozek asked Ms. Ngeh whether she had air conditioning in her home and whether she sleeps with
her windows closed. Ms. Ngeh responded that she does have air conditioning and she sleeps with her
windows closed. Ms. Rozek said that she didn't know Mr. Raylowski, who did the noise readings, but
that the 60 decibels recarded at C,race's house is loud; iPs a violation after 10 p.m. If a police officer
5
d��ll I /
measured at Grace's house and the measurement was 60 decibels, he could write a criminal citation.
The ordinance says that if you can heaz it over normal speech, it's a violation; and normal speech is 55
decibels.
Ms. Moermond referred Mr. Yang to The Saint Paul Legislative Code, Chapter 293.02b Noisy
Assembly or Amplification. That whole section relates to noise issues.
Mr. Yang stated that in regazd to the letter citing dates and times of loud music, he never had music
playing that late. On one of those dates Officer Mohr came to Daza Thai at approximately 12:26 a.m.,
when no music was playing. He just peeked into the door and left. In reference to the sound proof wall,
he did have it re-built with an engineer from Chaska, who recommended the solid bricks. Sound will
not travel through it. A building inspector came out to approve it. He also put a door-stopper on the
door. There are no leaks.
Ms. Ngeh added that on July 4, 2008, Dara Thai was open until 130 a.m. Mr. Yang keeps saying that
they close at 12 midnight but they do not. Ms. Rozek asked Ms. Ngeh if there were people there at that
time or was the music playing at that time. Ms. Ngeh responded that there were a few people there and
there was music noise.
Ms. Moermond asked about police calls and validation of concerns. Ms. Rozek responded that a list of
the police calls for a year from July 14, 2007 to August 14, 2008, produced ll calls. The disturbance
calls were all marked "unfounded" by the police department except for one where there was a fight; and
they advised on that, which means a report wasn't written. Ms. Moermond asked Ms. Rozek to explain
what "unfounded" means when the police respond. Ms. Rozek replied that for the most part,
"unfounded" means that an officer responded to a distwbance call and didn't find any disturbance at the
time that he arrived. Ms. Moermond added that it doesn't mean that the event didn't happen. To a
neighbor, that might read as an insult. Ms. Rozek commented that it doesn't report the time lapse —
between the time the call was made and the time when the officer responded. Ms. Moermond opined
that at that hour of the night, a disturbance call is going to get less priority than other kinds of calls. Ms.
Rozek stated that DSI gets all the police reports on license establishments; and if there was a police
report that indicated a disturbance, for instance, music, she would have gone forwazd with adverse
action. Ms. Moermond stated that noise disturbances, usually of limited duration, aze hazder to
document for enforcement staff (police or license inspector, etc.). Ms. Moermond asked Ms. Rozek if
there were any new procedures with respect to neighbors possibly filing affidavits with the City that
could assist DSI in developing an adverse action. Ms. Rozek responded that based on past adverse
actions and the attomey that the City has now working on license issues, despite the fact that there might
be numerous complaints from neighbors, those complaints need to be verified by a license inspector or a
police officer in order for DSI to move forward. Ms. Moermond asked if that was consistent with the
way dog barking is handled. Ms. Rozek replied that dog barking is different. The process for dealing
with barking dogs has to do with duration and citizens (2) must verify the event. They have to sign a
criminal citation in the DSI office; the citation is forwarded to the City Attorney. This is considered a
criminal action. The noise code violation after 10 p.m. is enforced by the Police Depariment; they can
come out and write a criminal citation. Ms. Rozek went on to say that DSI has a police officer, who
works for VICE, assigned to licensing, who goes out to check on issues that DSI has with businesses.
Ms. Moermond asked staff if DSI followed-up after the sound-proofing wall was erected. Ms.
Schweinler responded that the sound-proofing wall was a condition on the former licensee; however, the
former licensee did not pull a building permit, so the building inspector was not alerted to make an
inspection. As faz as noise mitigation, DSI is not an expert.
C�
D�l►fl
Ms. Moermond asked staff about the City and district council's role in reviewing license applications.
Ms. Schweinler explained that DSI policy and City ordinance require that DSI notify the district council
and every properiy owner within 350 feet when there is a Class N license application. IYs a 45-day
notice. ThaYs the comment period. When comment is received, a legislative hearing is held and the
legislative hearing officer makes a recommendation to the City Council, which makes the final decision.
Ms. Moermond added that everything leading up to and including the legislative hearing is all advisory
to the City Council.
Ms. Moermond asked what the hours for an establishment like this would be without either condition
#12 or the 2 AM Closing. Ms. Schweinler responded that it would be a 1 a.m. closing; and everyone has
to be out of the establishment by 130 a.m. Ms. Rozek added that there can not be a bar set-up while
there's dancing. The kitchen must remain open.
The hearing was paused for ten (10) minutes.
Ms. Moermond asked whether there are liquor licenses available for this establishment. Ms. Rozek
responded that there are liquor licenses available in Wazd 1. Ms. Moermond asked if this particular
location would qualify for a liquor license. Ms. Rozek said that it would. Mr. Yang reminded them that
he had indicated that he did not want a hazd liquor license. Ms. Moermond asked because Dara Thai is
leaning more to an entertainment focused crowd instead of a food focused crowd and the liquor license
allows for that. Daza Thai seems blended – a little on the gray side of both which means that the
conditions need to cover more rather than interpret on the line. Ms. Moermond added that she really
wants their business to flourish and she needs to find accommodations that can be reached because there
are profound neighbor concems; she has a long history of profound neighbor concerns which she needs
to respect. In this particular case, the magnitude of neighbor concerns is significant. Staff thinks Dara
Thai should not get the 2 AM license; iYs too close to that line of having a night club environment as
opposed to a restaurant environment. Ms. Moermond thinks there are things that Dara Thai could do to
address neighbors' concerns; perhaps one could be to seek help from Dispute Resolution. Mr.
Danielson-Castillo believes that iYs more about what can be enforced and what can't be enforced. Ms.
Moermond replied that if it can't be enforced, her concern is how to get Dara Thai to self police as part
of a negotiated agreement.
Ms. Schweinler asked if anyone has considered sound mitigation such as landscaping or fencing;
something on the outside that might help to block noise. The license holder, Dara Thai, might be able to
work something out with the landlord. Ms. Rozek commented that one of the bars on Grand Avenue put
of an 8-foot insulated wooded fence along the property line to help with neighbors' concerns. Since that
fence has been up, she hasn't received any neighborhood complaints.
Ms. Moermond stated that she is inclined to recommend to the Council that they take adverse action on
the application to change the license; essentially, she would recommend denial. She will, however, lay
it over for three (3) weeks to give management time to check into the landscaping option. She wants to
give the applicant a chance to check into the landscaping option and to talk again with haulers and staff
about the bottle duxnping and the gazbage, etc., because there are still complaints—time to mitigate the
problems. Mr. Yang contended that he has talked with staff and the gazbage haulers haven't been there
before 8 a.m. There are, however, three (3) different sets of gazbage in the back, including the mall
management garbage. He doesn't know what time the others are picked-up.
88-IIiI
Ms. Moermond stated that she would like the applicant to talk with properry management to do an
amendment to the lease about the gazbage behind the place; that there won't be collection of that
garbage between 8 p.m. and 8 a.m. It will also give the applicant a chance to discuss landscaping with
the property manager and things that would help with sound mitigation. It might also be helpful to take
a look at the insulated noise fencing put up at the edge of the pazking lot at Wild Onion on Grand
Avenue. Ms. Rozek added that she thinks the properry manager would be willing to discuss some of
these issues. Ms. Moermond stated that she needs some type of assurance that these things will be taken
care of.
Ms. Moermond stated that a meeting be set up for Friday, September 12, 2008, to talk about conditions.
She added that she will not approve the 2 AM Closing; she may approve lifting the 12 midnight closing
and negotiating the 1 a.m. closing.
The hearing was adjourned at 12:06 p.m.
A site visit and demonstration of sound levels with different combinations of doors both open and shut
was held at Dara Thai 3:00 p.m., Thursday, August 28. On this site visits, Ms. Moermond noted the
configuration of the restaurant, its patrons at the time of the visit, and the sound levels with the various
combinations of doars both open and shut. Ms Moermond noted the following: 1) the predominance of
the stage and the entertainment atmosphere that was thereby created; 2) the audible sound of amplified
music at the boundary of the property if the doors were open, especially the kitchen door; 3) the
influence of ambient traffic noise from the streets surrounding the shopping center complex in which
Daza Thai is located; 4) the presence of signs at all of the tables in the establishment reminding patrons
that food must be purchased with wine and beer; and 5) the presence of 2 young men playing a board
game at a table, both of whom were drinking beer, and neither of whom had a visible food order. Based
on these observations and the staff recommendation to not grant either the 2 a.m. license or the
modification in the existing condition, Ms Moermond recommends that the City Council refer this
application for adverse action through the City Attorney's Office.
/jab