07-94Council File # 7
Green Sheet # 3036494
RESOLUTION
CITY OF SAINT PAUL, MiNNESOTA
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WHEREAS, the Legisiative Heazing Officer heazd testimony and reviewed materials presented by the City's
licensing staff, the applicant and other interested parties; and
WHEREAS, the Legisiative Hearing Officer concluded that it is very likely the license conditions under which
the applicant has been operating were not adhered to under the previous management of Karen Thao or current
management of Airiya Song; and the Legislative Hearing Officer notes for the record that this finding must be
made through an adverse action process; and
WHBREAS, the Legisiative Hearing Officer recommends that this license application be referred by the City
Council to the City Attomey's Office for adverse action regarding the issuance of the license as described in
Chapter 310 of the Saint Paul Legislative Code; now, therefore, be it
RESOLVED, that the Council of the City of 5aint Paul hereby refers this license application to the City
Attorney for adverse action.
Yeas Nays Absent
Benanav �
Bostrom �-
Hanis �
Helgen ✓
Lantry �
Montgomery �
Thune �
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Adopted by Council: Date � ��
Adoption Certified by Council Secretary
By: / / /C1i/ �.%�Sir�
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Approved y r. <te l�
By: � Jl�Cifn �
Requested by Department of.
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Form Approved by City Attorney
By:
Approved by Mayor for Submission to Council
By:
WHEREAS, on January 23, 2007, the Legislative Hearing Officer conducted a public hearing on the application
for Wine On Sale, Malt On Sale (Strong), Restaurant B— mare than 12 seats, and Entertainment licenses
by Airiya Song, Dara Thai Inc, doing business as Dara Thai Restaurant at 769 Milton Street North
(20060003597); and
� Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet �
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CoMad Person & Phone:
Marcia Mcertnond
266-8570
Must sse on
07-FEBA7
Doc.Type: RESOLUTION
E-Document Required: Y
Document Contact: Jean Birkholz
Contact Phone: 266-8673
29JAN-07
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Assi9n
Number
For
Routing
Ordx
Total # of Signature Pages _(Clip All Lowtions for Signature)
Green Sheet NO: 3036494
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1 oonc0 De rimentD"vtttor
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5 i Clerk C� Cierk
Referring the license application to an Administrative Law Judge, per the Legislative Hearing Officer, for Wine On Sale, Malt Qn
Sale (Strong), Restaurant B-- more than 12 seats, and Entertainment License by Airiya Song, Dara Thai, Inc., doing business as
Daza Thai Restaurant a[ 769 Miilton Sheet North.
iaanons: approve �a) or Ke�ec� itt): Nersona� service contracu must answer me ronowmg uuesnons:
Planning Commission �. Has this persoNfirm everworked under a coniracl for this depaAment?
CIB Commitlee Yes No
Civil Service Commission 2. Has this person/firm ever been a city employee?
Yes No
3. Does this personJfirm possess a skill not normally possessed by any
current city employee?
Yes No
Explain all yes answers on separafe�sheet and attach to green sheet
Initiating Problem, fssues, Opportunity (Whq What, When, Where, Why):
Ativantages If Approved:
DisadvanWges IfApproved:
Disadvantages If Not Approved:
Transaction:
Funding Source:
Financial infortnation:
(Expiain)
d
CosURevenue Budgeted:
Activity Number:
..* � _..��,_.
.9fi39 � c3 LD�1
January 29, 2007 1:36 PM Page 1
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LICENSE HEARING MINUTES
Dara Thai located at 769 Milton Street North
Tuesday, January 23, 2007, 1:30 p.m.
330 City Hall, 15 Kellogg Boulevard West
Marcia Moermond, Legislative Hearing Officer
The hearing was called to order at 1:34 p.m.
Staff Present: Christine Rozek and Krisfina Schweinler, License, Inspecrions and Environmental
and Protecfion (LIEP); Rachel Gunderson, City Attorney's Office; and Jean Birkholz, Conncil
Research
Others Present: Airiya Song, business owner; Lee Her, husband of owner; James Capra,
attorney; Jonathan Green, neighbor; Grace Ngeh, neighbor; Mark Priore, neighbor; Francis
Bradic, neighbor; Boa Lee, Thomas-DalefDistrict 7 Planning Council
Dara Thai Restaurant: Wine On Sale, Malt On Sale (Strong), Restaurant B— more than 12 seats
and Entertainment B licenses
Ms. Moermond stated that this license application is for a Class N License which requires neighborhood
notification. Other Class N Licenses include: auto body, auto sales, liquor, etc. things that have an
immediate impact on their neighbors. The City received several letters of objection to the issuance of
this license which means that a Legislative Hearing was necessary. There are three (3) possible
outcomes to this hearing. Ms. Moermond could: 1) recommend to the City Council that they grant this
license without any conditions; 2) recommend to the City Council that they grant this license with
agreed upon conditions; or 3) recommend to the City Council that they refer this matter to an
Administrative Law Judge, which usually takes from four (4) to six (6) months. Ms. Moermond would
use this option if she thinks that there's no way that this business is warkable at this location or if she
thinks that there are conditions that are absolutely necessary to make it workable that the applicant finds
unacceptable. Ms. Moernnond's recommendation will come to the City Council as a resolution and it
will appear on the Consent Agenda.
Ms. Moermond will begin with a staff report. Staff will be asked to explain their review of the
application, and will also explain their recommendation. Then, she will ask the appiicant to talk about
the business plan. Next, she will hear from people who are here in support of the issuance of the license
and those with concerns about the issuance of the license. Then, she will talk about how to deal with
some of those concerns. Finally, Ms. Moermond will make a recommendation which will be presented
to the City Council.
Ms. Christine Rozek, LIEP, reported that this application with an Entertainment B license allows live
music, taped music and dancing in the establishment. Ms. Rozek read the recommended license
conditions for this license, some of which are standard; some of which were placed on the previous
licensee:
1. The sale of wine and beer will take place oniy in conjunction with the sale and service of food.
(Requirement of City Code as well as State Law.)
2. The kitchen shall remain open and food service shail be provided at all times that wine and beer are
being served.
3. Provide copies of gross receipts from the sales of food, wine and beer, showing at least sixty (60)
percent attsibutable to the sale of food quarterly.
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4. Any remodeling or expansion of this facility must be reviewed by LIEP prior to the beginning a
project. (Permits need to be applied for work to be done.)
5. Licensee will not allow any loitering behind the building of the licensed business.
6. The licensee sha11 build an interior service azea in the back of the business (along Chatsworth
Street) that would include a sound-proof wall which would prevent music being played inside to
be heazd by those outside. (This condition was piaced on the previous licensee approximately
three (3) yeazs ago. This business has never been in compliance with this license condition.)
7. The licensee must never prop open back doors during business hours.
8. The licensee may not dispose of beer bottles into the dumpster between the hours of 8 p.m. to 8 a.m.
9. The licensee must maintain video surveillance cameras in the front and back of the licensed
premises. License holder will keep the video surveillance cameras in good working order.
Tapes must be maintained for 3� days and must be available immediately upon request by a
license inspector or the Saint Paul Police Department.
The current licensee is Karen M. Thao doing business as Dara Thai Restaurant. The potential owners
have been operating under a management agreement since September 2006. The neighborhood has
recommended two (2) additional conditions:
1. The licensee must hire an off-duty police officer to work security at the establishment every Friday
and Saturday from 10 p.m. until 1:30 a.m. and every Sunday from 10 p.m. until 12:30 a.m.
2. The licensee sha11 close no later than 12 a.m. on Sunday nights. On Sundays, all patrons must be off
the licensed premises and all drinks removed by 1130 p.m.
They have also recommended new wording for condition #6:
The licensee shall build an interior service area in the back of his business (along
Chatsworth Street) that would include a sound-proof wall, and install acoustic insulation
to the ceiling, which would prevent music from being played inside to be heard by those
outside, no later than 45 days after the license is issued.
Ms. Rozek reported that the building has not been sound-proofed as required. No permits have been
pulled to go forward with the work. The Environmental Health inspection is pending. Fire has
approved it. The Office of License, Inspection and Environxnentai Protection is recommending that this
file be sent to the City Attorney for license denial. Ms. Moermond asked why the Environmental Health
inspection was pending. Ms. Rozek explained that they aze not going to do an inspection until it has
been resolved whether or not this license should move forward. They did not want to charge the
licensee the fee for doing the first inspection if it was possible that the license was not going through.
Ms. Rozek also reported that there has been an adverse action since these applicants have taken over
management regarding the operation of this business as a night club instead of a restaurant with wine
and beer. There was a penalty assessed, which has been paid. There are currently two (2) pending
police reports which may also be adverse actions.
Ms. Moermond asked Ms. Song to talk about the business and to comment on the staff report. Ms. Song
noted that they have operated the business since September 2006. Regarding the sound-proofing, Ms.
Song related that she has talked with some professional sound-proof businesses and provided a copy of
the estimate with two (2) different cost versions.
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Ms. Song stated that because sound-proofing cost so much, they want to make sure that iYs done
correctly. The camera system (ADT) has been set up since September, 2006. It is monitored everyday
and recorded. Ms. Song said that she first became aware of the conditions when she signed the
management agreement.
Attorney, James Capra, stated that he has been the applicants' attorney in other matters, and they aze
friends of his. He has respect for their willingness to do what they need to do in order to maintain this
business. They have discussed the problems that have occurred in the past and what they need to do in
order to change the way things have probably been done for yeazs. They are new to the restaurant
business and new to tkus process. They seem to have inherited the problems of this establishment.
Regazding security, the applicants intend to have a couple of properly trained security personnel inside
as well as one outside to prevent loitering azound the Dara Thai premises. No loitering signs wiil be
posted and customers will be asked to leave when they seem to have no business purpose there. Another
problem is enforcing no alcohol without a mea1. IYs difficult when people choose not to leave after they
aze finished eating. He has suggested that they bill for alcohol on the same check that they are being
billed for their meal. He has also suggested that they conspicuously post email account informatlon
where neighbors coald easily register complaints. Staff training is another concern at this establishment,
especially, about serving alcohol: checking ids, etc. He thinks the applicants are trying. Right now,
they're not doing well enough, although their intentions are good. He thinks that the conditions are
reasonable and the applicants should have an opportunity to show that they can do this.
Ms. Song added that she knows the business is too new for her. She is willing to accept any conditions
that apply to the license. She will do her best; she wants an opportunity to show that she can run the
business.
Jonathan Green, neighbor, spoke in opposition. Mr. Green stated that what has been going on at Dara
Thai is completely unacceptable, and there's no reason that the neighborhood should put up with it.
Their neighborhood is not a training ground for the applicants. The music that has been played over
there since early December 2006 is just intolerable, and it goes on until 2 a.m. Traffic on the street has
quadrupled within the past few months, and there are too many people loitering azound the business,
sometimes up to forty (40) people out in front. There are also people loitering in back. They have had
fights in front of the premises with patrons rooting it on. It makes Mr. Green extremely angry that he
has to put up with this behavior. He thinks that once they get the license, they wiil do whatever they
want. He feels that this location is not proper far the business either. There is as little as 150 feet from
the back of that building to ihe residential neighborhood. On Christmas Eve, as he was sitting in his
living room, he heard loud bass thumping from the business inside his house at ] 30 a.m. Obviously,
they're in clear violation and yet they say that they aren't going to comply until they get the license. He
thinks that pretty backwards. If they want to prove that they're going to be good owners and operators,
they shouid be complying with what they have now, even if that means not playing music. He feels that
they would not have the opposition that they have now if they would have made some sort of attempt to
meet the conditions. Mr. Green is also concerned about his property values and increasing crime in the
neighborhood. The business also has a trash problem in back of the building; and their garbage flies all
over the neighborhood. He has lived in his house since 1994.
Ms. Moermond asked Mr. Green if he has noticed a difference between the way the business used to
operate and the way it's operated since September 2006. Mr. Green responded that it has definitely
changed. The biggest change is the noise level going up. He doesn't see that consistent with being a
restaurant. When he sees forty (40) people outside the front door, and no one is sitting down at tables
(they close their drapes in an attempt to keep anyone from seeing in); and some people are not let into
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the establishment but aze told that iYs a private club, something's not right. The patrons of this
establishment seem to come in droves and aze disrespectful with loud stereos. It's been proven to him
that this business does not care about the neighborhood; they're just in it to make money. Mr. Green
collected signatures from people in home that aze in direct proximity to the back of Daza Thai.
Ms. Grace Ngeh, neighbor, spoke in opposirion. She also introduced a letter of opposition from Mr. and
Mrs. Tague, 985 Seminary, another neiu�bor. Ms. Ngeh lives directly behind Dara Thai, and has lived
there since 1997. She has not had problems with any of the businesses until Dara Thai applied for the
license about three (3) yeazs ago. Very loud music is played from the restaurant, especially on
weekends from 9 p.m. to 2 a.m. She has called Yhe owner several times at 12:30 am. asking them to
lower the volume, and she has complained to the landiord about the loud music, which has kept her from
sleeping. The trash from Daza Thai flies into her yard, and she has complained about that. She has also
complained about trashing bottles between 2 a.m. and 3 a.m. On December 1, 2, and 3, 2006, the noise
was unbearable. On December 2, 2006, she called the owners. She told them that she didn't want to
call 911. They told her that there was nothing they could do and she could complain to the licensing
people. On December 3, 11:30 p.m., she couldn't sleep because of the noise. At 130 a.m. she couldn't
sleep, so she left a message with the licensing department to complain. On December 4, she spoke with
Christine Rozek about the way the loud music keeps her awake and about the way the whole operation is
taking place. On December 18, 2006, they had a block club meeting where the neighbors discussed their
concerns with the applicant. She was wait3ng to see if after hearing the neighbars concerns, things
would change at Dara Thai. But things have not changed. Her bedroom is right across from the music
and she cannot sleep. She told of an incident where someone was druuk coming from Daza Thai and
busted her wooden fence, which she then replaced with a chain link fence. When the initial license was
sought, she remembers asking them what "light entertainmenY' meant when they spoke about it at the
neighborhood meeting. They replied that it would be like putting on the television for people to watch.
People bought into that; but since then, it has been just like a night club.
Initially, Dara Thai was asked to hire a security person who would patrol the building; that has not been
done. They were asked to put in sound-proof walls but that has not been done. At this point, Ms. Ngeh
thinks that they don't have any intention of doing that either. She feels that if they had any sympathy for
the neighbors' concerns, they would have done all these things. Ms. Ngeh works from Monday through
Friday, and she feeis that weekends should be her time ta rest. Instead, the weekends have been a
nightmare for her. Because of the commotion going on at Dara Thai, she doesn't get to sleep until after
2 am. She thinks that if Dara Thai is granted this license, things will only get worse. Ms. Ngeh has
gone to the restaurant to talk with them and has called them during the early morning hours to ask them
to tum down their music, but nothing happens. They say that they want to work with their neighbors but
that is not true. She thinks that they will say anything to get the license. She feels that if things continue
this way, she will develop serious health problems.
Mr. Mark Priore, attorney and neighbor, spoke in opposition. He has lived approximately 200 feet from
the back door of Dara Thai since 1996. He noted that he is also here on behalf of his wife, Kathy Priore.
He does not feel the need to rehash the noise problem. Everything that previous neighbors have testified
to is absolutely true. The bass is unbearable; a constant force, and it needs to be addressed. He
supported the previous owner; there was no such noises coming from that establishment. The
unbearable noise level has come about over the last three (3) to four (4) months. Mr. Priore noted that
his only objection is the noise. During proceedings today, he has realized that management of Daza Thai
has already been operating in violation of the conditions and they just continue to do so. IYs seems clear
to him that they want to operate as a night club. Serving food is just a ruse, and they've been doing this
since they began to manage. Mr. Priore noted that he had been unaware of the adverse actions and iYs a
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great concern to him. Minnehaha Lanes has been operating in the neighborhood well before he moved
into the neighborhood, and no such violations have arisen from their operation. Daza Thai's previous
owners had no such violations, to his knowledge. He sympathizes with their inexperience, but when
someone goes into business, they should already have their business plan laid out. They should have
already spoken with their attorney about ordinances they need to comply with, what licenses they need
to obtain and what conditions they need to adhere to. Flagrantly, they have done none of that. The
problems that they say they aze going to address shoutd alteady have been addressed. He tecommends
that all of the issues regarding sound, operation, security, surveillance, training, etc., be addressed prior
to the issuance of the license. He strongly recommends that this case be put onto the Administrative
Law Judge's calendar for further disposition.
Francis J. Bradic, neighbor, spoke in opposition. He is also here in behalf of his wife, Elizabeth M.
Btadic. He stated that he concurs with everything Yhat has been said with emphasis on the noise. He
and his wife have not heard this deep bass noise coming from Dara Thai prior to a few months ago.
He does not want to see a night club in his neighborhood. He thinks that before they put a lot of money
into sound-proofing, they should have some assurance that any improvement into the sound barriers is
going to work because if it doesn't work, Che neighbors have no choice but to call the City. Noise
abatement and pollution control personnel have told them to continue calling the police if the loud noise
continues after 10 p.m. They were told that if they call often enough, they will conect the problem.
Ms. Boa Lee, community organizer with the District 7 Planning Council, spoke in support with
recommendations for additional conditions. She stated that there were about eight (8) neighbors who
came to the block club meeting on December 18, 2006. Ali but one (1) person voted to support the
license. Everyone discussed and voted to revise condition #6 and add two (2) more conditions. Before
that meeting, the District 7 office received one (1) email in support; two (2) phone calls in opposition;
and there was also a petition circulated by the neighbors in opposition. Since the meeting, there have
been a couple of compiaints from the neighbors about the noise level and opposition to the issuance of
the license. Generally, the District 7 office receives more complaints about this business than other
businesses in the district. Most complaints haue to do with the sound level and the fact that people can't
sleep. The district had been led to believe that some of the conditions placed on the license, especially,
condition #6, had been met. They were told by the applicant at the December 18, 2006 meeting that
sound-proofing had been installed, but was a very poor job, so they would need to redo it. Ms.
Moermond asked Ms. Schweinler whether or not insulation had been installed. Ms. Schweinler
responded that from the pictures that were taken, it is obvious that there is no insulation at a11 on the
walls. They are plain block walls. If the license is approved, Ms. Lee would highly recommend adding
the conditions that the District 7 Planning Council has recommended.
Ms. Rozek asked for clarification as to whether the applicant is also pursuing a 2 a.m. closing license at
ihis time. Ms. Song answered they are open until 1 a.m. and on Saturday, they aze open until 1:30 a.m.
Ms. Rozek stated that the paperwork was unclear.
Ms. Moermond asked Ms. Song if she had any comments. Ms. Song repiied that with regard to the
loitering and the noise, she said they plan to make improvements. She feels that they cannot take the
blame far people loitering. She thinks that it is the patrons for Minnehaha Lanes who are guilty of the
loitering. She added that Dara Thai restauranYs patrons are all business people and they dress very nice.
On weekends, she has an off-duty police officer who drives around the business. Mr, Her added that he
respects all his neighbors and their concerns. They haven't done anything about the noise. The previous
owner did a very poor job of sound-proofing and he will do anything to fix it. They are spending money
on an off-duty police officer to make sure that the cars are not too loud with their music. There are two
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(2) cameras outside to capture the problems. He also told the ofF duty police officer to not allow people
to just sit in their cars in the parking lot. Mr. Her thinks that traffic is so great now because of a lot of
people coming to bowl in leagues. Ms. Moermond asked Ms. Schweinler if there were cameras when
she went out there. Ms. Schweinler replied that she does not recall seeing cameras at all.
Ms. Rozek asked about the police officers working off-duty for Dara Thai. Mr. Her said that there aze
three officers, each comes a different night. They go through Sgt. Sean. Ms. Song noted that he was
going to be here today, however, his schedule prevented him from coming.
Ms. Song repeated that this restaurant is not a night club / restaurant. They do more traditiona] dance
and step dance, only.
Ms. Rozek asked when a customer comes in and asked for a drink, are they informed that they need to
also order food. Ms. Song responded that they aze. Staff is supposed to do that. She added that her
brother did serve two (2) strangers who had asked for beer, but he did not know that they needed to
order food with the alcohol. At the time, Ms. Song was in the kitchen cooking. Ms. Song noted that she
has put up signs in the restaurant so that the customers are aware of that.
Ms. Rozek asked Ms. Song what kind of instruction she has given her staff regarding checking ids Ms.
Song replied that she always tells her staff that they need to check ids before they serve any beer, and
she instructs them that they also need to order food with alcohol. She said that in the future, she will
provide more training for them. Ms. Rozek asked what security does. Ms. Song responded that one
security person checks ids, the other one walks azound the restaurant. Mr. Her added that those who are
underage are marked on their hand. The security person who walks around the restaurant keeps his eyes
open for those who may be taking a drink. If they do, they will be kicked out. Ms. Song noted that on
Friday, 5aturday and Sunday nights, no one under age 21 is allowed in the restaurant after 10 p.m. Ms.
Schweinler asked if Dara Thai has a policy as to how many drinks a person can order. Ms. Song replied
that she does (2 bottles of beer or 1 bottle of wine). Ms. 5chweinler asked if people are allowed to drink
after they finish their meal. Ms. Song replied that they aze not.
Ms. Moermond stated that iYs rare that she receives a recommendation from the licensing staff to not
approve the issuance of a license and to refer the matter on, so apparently, there's a Iot going on at Dara
Thai Restaurant that they're not happy with. There's at least one (1) if not more conditions that haven't
been adhered to. There has been an adverse action and there are two (2) pending. This has been an out
of control situation for months according to the testimony. It has adversely affected the neighbors.
Ms. Moermond will recommend to the City Council that this matter be refened to an Administrative
Law Judge because of a history of noncompliance and because she thinks that this is not a consistent
land use with its residential neighbors. If she were to give this license conditions, she said that she
would give tight deadlines for getting the conditions met that are currently on the license. She would
also schedule follow-ups. If she were recommending conditions, she wouid say that training needs to
occur as a condition on the license. There would be a condition about managing the behavior in the
parking lot. Ms. Moermond added that the resolution with her recommendation will come forwazd to
the City Council within a couple of weeks. The Ward Councilmember can choose to go along with her
recommendation or can choose to change it.
Ms. Rosek continued to explain. If the Wazd Councilmember goes along with Ms. Moermond's
recommendation, this will be forwarded to the City Attorney. The applicant will receive a letter from
the City Attomey describing options for a hearing.
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Ms. Moermond added that if the Councilmember tt�iiilcs that the applicant can make this work, Ms.
Moermond will ask the Councilmember to refer this matter back into a legislative hearing so ttiat
conditions can be attached. She does not anticipate that to happen.
The hearing was adjourned at 2:40 p.m.
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