07-1083Council File # � ���t�3
Recalled and amended 11l21l2007
Green 5heet # 3046191
RESOLUTION �3
CITY OF SAINT PAUL, MINNESOTA
WHEREAS, Dara Thai Inc. was represented in the hearing by Song Thao, President, her business partner Chi Yang
Shong; her attorney Rick Petry and business representative Michael Yang; and
WHEREAS, the Legislative Hearing Officer heard testimony and reviewed materials presented by the City's licensing
staff; the applicant and other interested parties and based on her findings makes the recommendation that the Saint Paul
City Council issue the Wine On Sale, Malt On Sale (Strong), and Entertainment B licenses to the existing Restaurant
(B}—more than ] 2 seats licenses by Dara Thai Inc., doing business as Dara Thai Restaurant (ID #20070001876) with
the following conditions:
1. The sale of Wine and Beer will take place only in conjunction with the sale and service of food.
2. The kitchen shall remain open and food service shall be provided at all times that wine and beer are being served.
3. Licensee will provide annually copies of gross receipts from the sales of food, wine, and beer, showing at least
sixty (60) percent attributable to the sale of food.
4. Any remodeling or expansion of this facility must be reviewed by DSI prior to beginning a project.
5. Licensee will not allow any loitering behind the building of the licensed business.
6. The licensee shall build an interior service area in the kack of his business (along Chatsworth Street) Utat would
include a sound-proof wall which would prevent music being played inside to be heard by those outside. The
entertainment license, if approved, wil! not be issued unti! this condition is met and the building permit is signed
off.
7. The licensee must never prop open back doors during business hours (on the Chatsworth Street side}.
8. The licensee may not dispose of beer bottles into his dumpster between the hours of 8:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m.
4. Trash collection for this business is allowed to take place only between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 9:00 p.m.
] 0. The licensee must maintain video surveillance cameras in the front and back of the licensed premises. The
number, quality, and placement of eameras must be approved by SPPD. License holder will keep the video
surveillance cameras in good working order. Tapeslrecordings must be maintained for a minimum of 30 days and
must be available immediately upon request by a license inspector or the St. Paul Police Dept.
1 l. The license halder shall make sure that all exterior refuse, glass and trash that is on the premises, from the front
door of the business to Chatsworth Street, is removed from the licensed premises on a daily basis.
] 2. This establishment must close for business no later than ] 2:00 midnight, each night of the week. This condition
will be reviewed in six months.
RESOLVED, that the Council of the City of Saint Paul hereby issues these licenses with the aforementioned conditions.
* as recommended by the Legislative Hearing Officer and excluding the Liquor On–Sale 2 a.m.
closin�
WHEREAS, on October 25, 2007, the Legislative Hearing Officer conducted a public hearing on the application for Wine
On Sale, Malt On Sale (Strong), Liquor On Sale-2 AM Closiog and Entertainment B licenses to the existing
Restaurant (B� more than 12 seats licenses by Dara Thai Inc., doing business as Dara Thai Restaurant (ID
#20070001876);and
o?-/Og3
�if
iil„!, �
Benanav
Yeas
Adopted by Council: Date � � i�/,�/
Adoption Certified by Council Secretary
BY� _�1/ 1 � '
Appmv�ed p'�14�a�o : Dat ,„ � � L`5 C
e �
BY� � � ��
Yeas � Nays
Bostrom
Harris
Helgett
Lantry
Montgomery
Thune
✓
✓
�
Adopted by Council: Date
Adoption Cettified by u
By:
U
Approved by a or: Daf�
By:
��Ila�;.i�
1
1( (27
Absent
✓
Requested by Department of:
By:
Approved by the Office of Financial Services
By:
Appzoved by Ciry Attomey
By:
Appxoved by Mayor for Submission to Council
By:
Requested by Deparhnent of:
✓ By:
Farm Approved by City Artorney
, By:
Approved by Mayor for Submission to Council
By:
� Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet �
a�-/o83
co ������
CoMact Person S Phone:
Marcia Moermond
266$570
Doc. Type: RESOLUTION
E-DocumentRequired: N
Document Contact: Racquel Naylor
Contact Phone: 26&8573
08-NOV-07
y
Assign
Number
For
Routing
Orcler
Total # of Signature Pages _(Clip All Locations for Signature)
Green Sheet NO: 3046191
0 oapcil
1 ooncil
2 ' Clerk
3
4
5
Approving the license application with condi[ions, per the Legislative Hearing Officer, for Wine On Sale, Ma]t On Sale (Shong),
Liquor On Sale-2 A.M. Closing, and Entertainment B licenses to Dara Thai Restaurant, 769 Milton SUeet North.
qations: Approve {A) or Keject (R): Personal5ervice Goniracts Must Mswer the Following QuesGons:
Planning Commission 7. Has this person/firm ever worked under a contract for this tlepartment?
CIB Committee Yes Na
Civif Service Commission 2. Has thi5 person/firm ever been a city empl0yee?
Yes No
3. Does this person/firm possess a skill not normally possessed by any
current city employee?
Yes No
Explain all yes artswers on separate sheet and attach to green sheet
Initiating Problem, Issues, Opportunity (Who, What, When, Where, Why):
AdvanWges If Approved:
DisativanWges If Approved:
Disadvantages If Not Approved:
Tra�saction:
Funding Source:
Financial lnformation:
(EzpWin)
CosURevenue Budgeted:
ActiYity Number.
November 8, 2007 830 AM Page 1
�7 /083
LICENSE HEARING MINUTES
(Oct) Dara Thai Restaurant at 769 Milton Street North
Thursday, October 25, 2007, 10:00 a.m.
330 City Hall, 15 Kellogg Boulevard West
Marcia Moermond, Legislative Hearing Officer
The hearing was called to order at 10:05 a.m.
Staff Present: Christine Rozek and Reid Soley, Department of Safety and Inspections (DSI); and
Jean Birkholz, Council Research
Others Present: Song Thao, president, Dara Thai Inc.; Chris Yang, manager; Rick Petry, ESQ;
Michael Yang, Project for Pride In Living; Tait Danielson Castillo, District 7 Planning Council;
and the following neighbors: Jonathan Green, Grace Ngeh, Ray Bayers, Jackie Tague, Orville
Tague and Richard Prelzo.
Dara Thai Restaurant: Add Wine On Sale, Mait On,Sale (Strong), Liquor On Sale-2 AM Closing
and Entertainment B licenses to the existing Restaurant (B}—more than 12 seats
Ms. Moermond stated that this license application is for a Class N License which requires neighborhood
notification. Class N Licenses include: auto repair, auto body, liquor, entertainment, etc. The City
received several letters of objection to the issuance of this license which means that a Legislative
Hearing is necessary. There are three (3) possible outcomes of this hearing. Ms. Moermond could
recommend to the City Council: 1) that thay issue this license without any conditions; 2) that they issue
this license with agreed upon conditions; or 3) that they refer this matter to an Administrative Law
Judge, which usually takes from foixr (4) to six (6) months. Ms. Moermond would use this option if she
thinks that there's no way that Yhis business is workable at this locafion or if she thinks that there are
conditions that aze absolutely necessaxy to make it workable that the applicants find unacceptable. Ms.
Moermond's recommendation will come to the City Cowici] as a resolution and it will appear on the
Consent Agenda.
At this informa] hearing today, staff from the Department of Safety and Inspections (DSI) will provide a
report on the application; then Ms. Moermond will ask the applicant to talk about the business plan and
hear from people who are here in support or with concerns about the licenses. Ms. Moermond will also
put concems on the record that have been received by letter or email.
Mr. Reid Soley, DSI, reported that staff has proposed nine (9) license conditions:
The sale of Wine and Beer will take place only in conjunction with the sale and service of food.
2. The kitchen sha11 remain open and food service shall be provided at all times that wine and beer
is being served.
3. Provide copies of gross receipts from the sales of food, wine and beer, showing at least sixty (60)
percent attributable to the sale of food, annually.
4. Any remodeling or expansion of this facility must be reviewed by DSI prior to beginning a
project.
07-1083
Licensee will not allow any loitering behind the building of the licensed business (along
Chatsworth Street).
6. The licensee shall build an interior service area in the back of his business (along Chatsworth
Street) that would include a sound-proofed wall which would prevent music being played inside
to be heard by those outside. The entertainment license, if approved, will not be issued until this
condition is met.
7. The licensee must never prop open back doors during business hours (along Chatsworth Street).
8. The licensee may not dispose of beer bottles into his dumpster between the hours of 8:00 p.m.
and 8:Q0 a.m.
9. The licensee must maintain video surveillance cameras in the front and back of the licensed
premises. The number, quality and placement of cameras must be approved by the Saint Paul
Police Department (SPPD). License holder will keep the video surveillance cameras in good
working order. Tapeslrecordings must be maintained for a minimum of thirty (30) days and
must be available immediately upon request by a license inspector of the SPPD.
At this time, DSI is not awaze of a recommendation from the District Gouncil. The active issued
building permit to add sound-proofing pads and one (1) new door has not been finalized by the
inspector. Environmental Health has approved the restaurant license but will need to re-inspect before
the issuance of the new licenses. There are no concerns with Fire. Licensing has approved this matter
with conditions. Zoning has also approved with conditions. DSI has no recommendation at this time.
Christina Rozek, DSI, noted that staff has had numerous discussions with the licensee and has concerns
about the intent of the operation of this business. The main concern is that this licensee is operating or
intends to operate a nigJ�tclub with a Wine and Beer and Restaurant licenses rather than with an On Sale
Liquor license. State law requires that wine and beer be served with menu items only, which means thal
wine and beer can be sold only in conjunction with food. In Ms. Rozek's experience, she is not aware
that it's ever happened that Saint Paul has had an establishment that has remained open unti12:00 a.m.,
and has actually had its kitchen open and has had its patrons eating food until 2.00 a.m. while
accompanying their food with alcoholic beverage. Saint Paul has taken adverse action against similar
businesses who have said that they were going to run their establishment that way and it just hasn't
happened. DSI is concerned about granting an Entertainment license together with a Wine and Beer
license. Saint Paul City Council has recently passed an ordinance that prohibita DSI from issuing an
Entertainment license with a Wine and Beer license for a new licensee. However, this was an existing
establishment and this application was submitted prior to the effective date of that ordinance change.
The legislative intent of a Wine and Beer license is to allow a customer to have a glass of wine or beer
along with a meal. DSI will enforce that state law /condition.
Ms. Moermond asked if these conditions are the same as those for the previous owner. Ms. Rozek
replied that they are. She added that there were two (2) additional conditions recommended by the
neighborhood at that time and the District Council looks as though it is advising those same two (2)
conditions now.
Ms. Moermond asked Ms. Thao what she is planning for the business. Ms. Thao introduced the
manager, Chris Yang and also her attomey, Rick Petry. Mr. Chris Yang responded that both he and
Song are from the Frogtown azea. He has a bachelor's degree in business management. Song has
p7 -/083
worked at Unity Unitarian Church for the last twelve (12) yeazs as a financial assistant. Chi Yang
Shong, also from the area, has been in the food industry for the past 21 years. He added that their
experience will bring a very different restaurant management from the previous owners. Ms. Moermond
asked if any one has had a business where wine, beer or other types of liquor were sold. Mr. Yang
answered, "No." She asked if entertainment would also be a new piece. Mr. Yang responded, "Yes."
They are leasing the space. Ms. Moermond asked if any of the new set of owners are connected, in any
way, with the previous owners. Mr. Yang answered, "No. Not in any way, shape or form is any of us
connected with the previous owners." Song Thao, president and Chi Yang Shong, vice president, are the
ownerslpartners and Mr. Yang is their employee.
Michael Yang, Project for Pride in Living, addressed the hearing. He is a very good friend of Chris
Yang and is their business consultant working with them on community out reach. Frogtown has been
his home since 1979.
Ms. Moermond asked how long the restaurant has been in operation. Mr. Yang responded that Song and
Chi have owned the restaurant since April 1, 2007. Some major remodeling on the inside of the
restaurant has been done. The sound proofed walls have been put in; however, the final inspection has
not yet been done. Mr. Yang added that the vision for this place is to make it a much more friendly
user—a place for the neighborhood. Discounts will be provided for people nearby; food delivery will be
provided; as well as provide a place that the community can use for get-togethers, district meetings,
press conferences, block club meetings, etc.
Ms. Moermond asked about the employees and the hours of operation. Mr. Chris Yang explained that
currently, there are only two (2) staff people: 1) Chi Yang Shong is the cook and she is at the business
from 7:00 am. until 9:00 p.m.; and 2) Chris Yang is there from 9:00 a.m. until 9:00 pm. Both are
physically there every day. Current business hours are 1 I:00 a.m. – 9:00 p.m. Monday through
Saturday. Sunday, they close a little earlier, probably around 6:Q0 p.m. An additional cook and wait
staff will be hired when the new licenses take effect.
Ms. Moermond asked about what type of entertainment they envision having. Mr. Chris Yang
responded that they would bring in live music some times—singers who perform different types of
music or a comedian show, perhaps a violinist.
Ms. Moermond asked how long the business has been in operation. Mr. Chris Yang answered that they
have been operating the business since April 10, 2007. Ms. Moermond asked to see the layout of the
restaurant. Staff provided a configuration of space.
Mr. Rick Petry, attorney, noted that one of the things he has heard this morning is a concern that there
may be an ulterior motive here with regard to the way this business is going to be operated or perhaps,
the way it's being operated, presently. First of ali, he thinks it's important to draw a very cleaz
distinction between the current ownership and whomever may have been affiliated with the operation of
this business in the past ar anything else going on at that location. He thinks iYs very important that the
hearing officer is fully aware that there are no connections whaCsoever. He thinks that these folks have
been somewhat modest about explaining who they aze. They haven't said much about their background
and he thinks that is something that the hearing officer should be aware o£ Chris Yang has owned a tax
preparation business; he was also a loan officer. Prior to that, he worked for the state as a revenue tax
specialist and a revenue collections officer. These people are upstanding citizens. The lady with the
food experience worked for Leann Chinn for over twenty (20) years. These are folks who are relatively
new to the restaarant business as far as this goes, but they're certainly not a fly-by-night operation.
3
07�/08
There's no motive here to operate, in any way, other than in full compliance with the law and any other
regulation/conditions that aze put into place. The applicant is agreeable to the conditions that are listed.
In fact, they have gone a step further. They have worked out an agreement with the landlord that they
will take caze of helping to clean-up the pazking lot in front of the business as well. In addition to that,
they have put together a security plan. As part of that, they will bring in two (2) off-duty Ramsey
County sheriffs to be present in the evening hours to make sure that people azen't loitering and getting
out of hand. They do not want people to come and get drunk and get out of hand. They have articulated
very well that they want to run a restaurant that would offer beer and wine that would serve as a
community place where their peopie can come and socialize and engage in conversation. He thinks that
is very important. Historically, that's what this country has been built on—folks need a place to gather
and talk about the issues of the day. That is what they are trying to accomplish. They are not trying to
set up a fapade where it looks like one thing but gradually becomes another. He added that he has
looked through the complaints from some of the residents and to him it looks as though a lot of those
folks had bad experiences with the prior ownership.
Mr. Michael Yang wanted to express that he has previously worked with Councilmember Jerry Blakey.
He grew up in the Frogtown azea; attended St. Agnes High School; went to St. John's University to get
his bachelor degree; went to Boston to get his first masters; got his second masters in Minnesota and is
currently working on his doctorate program at Hamline University. He and these restaurant people have
a lot of credibility within the community. They are focusing on bringing something into the community
that will not be a nuisance but a fine business and gathering place. They have also committed to walk a
one (1) block circumference of the business to make sure that there aze no beer bottles and other trash to
make sure that iY s a clean, safe place for the neighborhood. He asks that the members of the community
and the City of Saint Paul to give them a chance. He thinks that they will bring something fresh,
something new to make the community a better place. They understand the neighbors concerns because
of the past owners of this business but they have new ideas of how to move this business forward in a
way that is resp�ctful to the residents of the neighborhood.
Mr. Petry added that he knows that some of the residents seem to be concerned that there may have been
some "tom foolery" involved when there was an application for a waiver filed by these folks. There was
no intent by them to hy to do anything that would be underhanded; they were simply acting on advice
that they were given by City representatives.
Ms. Moesmond cited the Saint Paul Legislative Code Chapter 310.06c that talks about the imposition of
reasonable conditions on licenses. She pointed out that it allows
for any other reasonable condition or restriction limiting the operation of the licensed business ox
establishtnent to ensure that the business or establishment will harmonize with the eharacter of
the area in which it is located or to prevent the development or continuation of a nuisance.
The letters of concern and the past conditions indicate thaY this is an imperfect situation with the licenses
from Yhe bowling alley on through to Dara Thai and the uses that make it more likely that a nuisance will
develop. So, steps have been taken in terms of the construct of the conditions that are being carried
forward to address some of that. She added that she thinks it is legitimate to say that these things that
you want to do have the potential to eracerbate or create a nuisance situation and we want to stop that
from happening and the code allows far that. She has takett note that this business has taken positive
steps.
D� Id83
Ms. Rozek asked if they intend the restaurant to stay open every night until 2:00 a.m. Mr. Chris Yang
responded that maybe only on Friday and Saturday nights and some special events. Monday through
Thursday, they will probably be open oniy until 10:00 or 11:00 pm. Ms. Rozek asked if they have
talked with the Saint Paul Police Department about the placement of cameras and appropriate lighting
for the cameras. Mr. Chris Yang answered that yes, one of the officers did come out and approved the
cameras. Ms. Rozek asked about their plan for checking I.D.s. She explained that under state law,
people under the age of 21 can enter a wine and beer establishment for social purposes, so, how is this
management going to assure that people under 21 are not served alcohol. Mr. Yang replied that they
will have two (2) in-house security staff stationed at the front. When people come in, one of the officers
will check I.D.s, the other will band. If you are over the age of 21, you will get a colored band on which
is printed, "There people can be served." ff they are under the age of 21, they will be banded witl� a
different color. Ms. Moermond asked during which business hours will the banding occur. Mr. Chris
Yang responded that the banding will occur anytime after 9:00 pm. when the officers arrive. The
under-aged patrons will be moved to the left side of the restaurant at approximately 11:00 p.m.
Ms. Moermond asked Mr. Chris Yang to explain where the sound-proofing was installed. Mr. Yang
stated that they had an engineer come out from a sound-proofing business in Chaska. He had engineered
Jimmy Jam's studios. They installed the sound-proofing recommendation made by the Chaska
company. They installed a door jam on the Chatsworth Street side door because there were leaks and
filled-in spaces with insulation. Ms. Moermond asked staff if there has been a pzeliminary inspection on
this. Mr. 5olely replied that he was informed by the building inspectox that, in his opinion, the wall is
too close to the restroom and doesn't allow a wide enough space for handicapped usage. The inspector
indicated that he would talk with Mr. Yang about it, and require that the wall be moved. There is also an
electrical panel that may also have to be moved, as well. Mr. Yang responded that the inspector has
spoken with him about those things. Mr. Yang explained what they had done using the floor plan. The
inspector will be out tomorrow to look at it.
Ms. Rozek asked how the establishment will look after 9:00 p.m. versus before 9:00 p.m. What kind of
crowd is expected later on at night? Mr. Chris Yang responded that the live music will begin 9:00 p.m.
or after. Mr. Michael Yang added that they had also talked about a dress code for evening patrons.
Hopefully, that will help to eliminate problem people. He added that they aze willing to make use of
suggestions provided by this hearing as well as by the residents, but they, too, are very concerned about
the behavior of their patrons and do have a plan in place. Ms. Moermond asked if there will be any
other meaningful difference after 9:00 p.m. Mr. Chris Yang answered, "No."
Mr. Tait Danielson Castillo, Executive Director, District 7 Planning Council, 533 North Dale Street,
spoke in support of the application and proposed an additional condition:
The license holder shall make sure that all refuse, glass and trash that is on the exterior premises,
from the front door of the business to Chatsworth Street, is removed from the licensed premises
on a daily basis.
Ms. Moermond asked if the applicant finds this condition acceptable. Mr. Petry responded that they
agree.
Mr. Danielson Castillo went on to explain that the process of the District 7 Planning Council is very
different from all other distTict councils. There aze no committees anymore and they have one (1)
meeting per month: the Community Concerns meeting. Before the meetings when they have a license
review, they flyer the neighbors within 350 feet. In this particular case, the entire blocks of Seminary
5
d7-/OS 3
and Englewood were flyered just to be sure that everyone knew the meeting was coming. It's a regulaz
meeting that meets at the exact same time and day: the fourth Tuesday at 6:30 p.m. At that time, the
form is created that was sent to Ms. Moermond. It gets voted on by the board but it does not get
manipulated by the board. Everything that happens at the meeting is written down and sent directly to
Ms. Moermond. In this particular case, the 6oard fek that it was a reasonable approval. However, the
previous owners were not receptive to the needs of the community, and at times, were downright rude
and unresponsive. The cunent zoning of the mall, however, is inappropriate for land in such close
proximiry to residential housing. Entertainment that goes late is often times noisy. However, it is zoned
B-2; that the current owner entered into the purchase of a building with the expectation that she would
have the privilege to pursue a111icenses available under the B-2 zoning. These are new owners, not the
previous owners, and when looking at a mall that has, in fact, been zoned B-2, they thought that this was
an opportunity to pursue those licenses in which they could do a business. And, until the community
can come together and decide how to deal with having a B-2 zoned mall this close to residents, we have
a real problem on our hands. From District 7's standpoint, we do hope to pursue a new future for the
Minnehaha Mall. For now, the owner of the mall needs to put businesses into the mall. He needs to
create income and the City needs to collect taxes as a city to make that happen. Currently, all are just
riying to make something work here. Hopefixlly, with all the conditions here, we are doing the best we
all can to try to make this work; the hope is that it can work. As a community and from the residents
standpoint, we ask that we have regular inspections from city licensing and that the police department
spends a good portion of time there, as well because this is not the only business that has been a problem
but also the bowling alley and kind of a discotheque behind the bowling alley, a very lazge high-rise
complex and multiple unit buildings on the other side of Milton that are causing pxoblems in the
neighbarhood and we need good city services to make sure that people act appropriately. The hope is
that not all that pressure is put onto one business.
Jonathan Green, 993 Setninary, brought in a petition with the signatures of 94 of his neighbors who aze
in opposition to this application. He stated that he was not awaze of the September 25, 2007 district
council meeting. A red flag went up for him when he heard that Dara Thai intended to partnership with
Minnehaha Lanes and offer discounts to Lane's customers. Minnehaha Lanes has a history of being a
problem for the past twenty (20) years; it generates, at least, ten (10) complaints per week. There was a
shooting inside over there the Friday before last. Three (3) months a go, there was a bar fight in there,
and every squad car in Frogtown had to show-up. The offer of partnership shows him how
inexperienced these new owners are. Minnehaha Lanes is over three times the distance from the
residents' home that Daza Thai is. Mr. Green introduced photos that show how close this business is to
the residents' homes. Grace's house is the closesY at 130 feet. And, Dara Thai insulated only one (1)
wall. The residents will surely hear the music. The traffic is another major problem here. The parking
lot is in such bad shape that no one uses it. As a result, the residents get 80% of the mall's traffic
directly up their residential street. Many of the people who come through are speeding and do not stop
for the stop sign. Drug dealing goes on in front of neighborhood houses. Many people clean out their
cars and throw trash out onto the street. The neighborhood cannot afford any more of this behavior.
There is nothing beneficial to the neighborhood with the issuance of this license. There's just more
traffic, more noise, more garbage, more drug dealing, etc. The neighborhood just can't accept any more.
No one in the neighborhood wants to support this; no one wants to see that type of business. There is
very poar police response, as well. They are not around much. Perhaps, if they were opening something
for families and kids, that would be different. But, they want live entarfainment and to be open until
2:00 a.m. Mr. Green does not feel that iYs right for the residents as taxpayers to take on more of this
6urden. If this license does go through, he wants very much for the City Council to take a look at what
message they are sending to the neighborhood. He added that they seem to be living in a kind of a hole.
There's very poor police response. They have watched all of the communities from west of Lexington
3
07 /0�3
to east of them get new upgrades: new streets; new sewers; water line upgraded from lead; etc. None of
that is happening in their neighborhood. IYs not a good situation. To compound these problems even
further, isn't right. No one wants more entertainment, alcohol or late night activity in the nei�borhood.
Ms. Grace Ngeh, 984 Seminary Avenue, spoke in opposition. She is here today to represent the children
of the neighborhood. The children of the neighborhood and their parents deserve to sleep at night.
Pazents who work Monday through Friday need the weekend to rest, not to be kept up by a 2:00 a.m.
business. Another concern of hers is the activity generated outside the business wall. Who is going to
control that? She feels that what has happened with that business in the past will continue into the
future. She doesn't want to continue to pick-up trash, including condoms, on the weekends. The
business will directly and adversely affect their families. Ms. Ngeh added that Dara Thai's vision
doesn't sound like the vision of a restaurant, but like something much more. Also, the huge trash trucks
come to pick up at 6:00 a.m. and wake them up. She asked that Dara Thai consider having just a
restaurant and close at 9:00 p.m. She would have no problem with that.
Mr. Ray Bayers, 981 Seminary Avenue, spoke in opposition. He said that he had only a few complaints.
The noise from Minnehaha Lanes is terrible and it last unti12:00 a.m. There's screaming, hollering and
the squeals of the wheels. Dara Thai will bring in only more noise. How do they plan to stop all those
noises? He stated that he doesn't like to be awakened every day at 2:00 a.m. Next, the trash haulers
start at 4:00 a.m. with more noise.
Jackie Tague, 985 Seminary Avenue, spoke in opposition. She and her family have lived there for thirty
(30) years. The only thing that she is against is remaining open until 2:00 a.m. Over the years, there
have been a lot of problems with the bowling alley and the previous Dara Thai establishment. Many
things happen between their homes and Dara Thai. People park there and they throw trash, do drugs,
etc., but by the time the police come, they're gone. The neighborhood needs a lot of support. Just a
restaurant would be fine. Why do we need all this music going until all hours of the night? The
neighborhood doesn't need this.
Mr. Green added that the residents are not against business but the only way he can see this working out
is if they give up the notion of entertainment and something is done to quell Yhe traffic problem. The
only accessible place to enter that entire complex is Seminary Avenue that runs right through there, and
guess what? Everyone takes it rigbt down to Lexington Avenue to come and go. In order far this to
work, the neighbors want to see the lot closed off at Chatsworth, so that the traffic cannot come through
and they can't use our neighborhood as a throw away.
Ms. Ngeh stated that she wanted to clarify something about the voting at the disnict meeting. The
neighbors are so fed up with the whole thing that many of them felt that they needn't bother going.
Mr. Petry stated that no one is asking that the license be granted for these foiks to operate a business
outside the constraints of the law. All the issues that have been mentioned are issues that Dara Thai is
concerned about, as well. He thinks that many of the frustrations talked about today are not with this
business because They haven't been there long enough. He thinks the neighbors aze saying that they are
not getting the type of service that they want, from perhaps, the police department. With regard to the
parking lot being in disrepair, that's an issue that needs to be taken up with the owner of the property.
He noted that he is also aware that if the landlord doesn't have tenants, the landlord may not have
revenue sufficient to cover either repairs or having the parking lot redone. Also, it's not the intenY of the
business to be open daily until 2:00 a.m. They are talking about probably on the weekends being open
unti12:00 a.m. Also, he thinks that Saint Paul must have an ordinance that deals with trash hauling, and
7
o �-/0g3
certainly, they don't allow trash haulers to pick-up at 3 or 4 in the morning. That needs to be dealt with;
however, it doesn't come back as a nuisance or legal violation caused by this business. He thinks these
folks are genuine and that they are going to be good neighbors; and this may be the type of business that
could help turn things around. They can't control everything, but they aze going to try to do everything
to control what they can control. There will be a Ramsey County Sheriff on duty who will be dealing
with those folks who do act up. He asked again that these folks be given a chance to pursue the highest
and best use of the business that they will operate in compliance with the law. They have agreed to
operate the business in comp]iance with the conditions that have been placed on the license.
Mr. Michael Yang stated that he truly believes that they share the concerns that the residents are talking
about: drugs and guns, prostitution, traffic, trash, fights, noise, etc. He asks that the residents give them
a chance to make a difference. They are coming in with a genuine interest and well-being for the
neighborhood.
Ms. Moermond asked whether the recent shooting at Minnehaha Lanes impacted or affected their
business at all. Mr. Cluis Yang responded that, fortunately, they did not know about it. It hadn't
affected them because although they ue open on the weekend, they close early.
Ms. Moermond asked if they have noticed more litter lying around on their premises, perhaps from the
bowling alley. Mr. Chris Yang replied that unfortunately, the litter is out there, so when they come in,
they go out and pick-up what they can on the premises. He added that they aze asking the community
for an opportunity. The mixsic is intended to draw more people into the business to pick it up.
Otherwise, they can't survive.
Ms. Moermond took a ten (10) minutes recess.
Ms. Moermond reconvened the hearing at 11:53 a.m.
Ms. Moermond stated that this license issue has all of the classic kinds of things going on with it 9n
terms of having a residential area in close proximity to a business that's likely to have spin-off issues for
neighbors. There is also another business in the immediate vicinity that has caused problems, and we
know the history of this location has been problematia She stated that she agrees that those problems
aze not attributable to the new owners. From everything she has seen of the new business owners, they
are responsible, professional people who have every intention of running this place in a responsible,
professional manner. The concerns that the neighbors are bringing forward aze real. 5he knows
firsthand that they are legitimate.
Ms. Moermond said thaC she will recommend that the City Council not grant the 2:00 am. license at this
time. She thinks that the business needs to prove itself and is welcome to reapply for the 2:00 a.m. or
withdraw their application for the 2:00 a.m. There are several options available to the business owners
on that aspect. Ms. Moermond explained that if she recommends to the City Council not to grant it
because she thinks it will be too much of a nuisance impact, it will translate into a recommendation that
the matter be referred to an administrative law judge. It would go through a hearing. The risk taken in
that hearing is that if the judge and then the Council find that this business should not have a 2:QQ a.m.
license, the business will be restricted in future applications. The other option is to withdraw the
application and re-submit. Those are things that need to be decided. Ms. Moermond stated that she
would like to see a condition on the license that this business cannot be open later than midnight for
now. She is more than willing to re-visit that in six (6) months. She would like to see the business
07 /08 3
establish a track record for being open later at night and managing well with the neighbors, and
distinguishing 3tseif from the nuisance activity that exists in such close proximity.
With respect to the wine and malt on sale, Ms. Moermond stated that she will support the application.
She will recommend to the Council that they grant that license on the condirion that the business close at
midnight.
Regarding the entertainment license, Ms. Moermond will recommend that the Council grant it.
Ms. Moermond said that she wants the establishment to finish the sound-proofing. She will recommend
that the Council modify that condition so that entertainment cannot be provided until all of the sound-
proofing permits have been signed-off on by the building department so that work is all finished.
She added that she'd like to see a condition that the business work with the garbage hauler and modify
their contract with the garbage hauler so that it is established that no garbage will be removed prior to
7:00 a.m. and no later than 9:00 p.m.
Ms. Moermond stated it makes her nervous to think about how the new owners have described the under
21 and over 21 service in the business. She asked the owners to think about that more because it sounds
to her like the nightclub operation that had the under 21 possibility which has a huge potential for
underage drinking and other things going on. She added that she has seen a number of places in Saint
Paul end up in trouble with bad planning up front abaut how to handle that. She suggested that they
work with their security to test and modify their plans. A night club that serves the Hmong community
is not too far from this site. This business is not a night club; it is a restaurant providing music and
entertainment in a different kind of a venue. 5he suggested that they stretch that diffexence; develop
their own market.
Ms. Moermond added that they have security and other personnel watch for problem behaviors and
proactively deal with the police. She wants to see the police called; she wants to see a police report—
something official when there's something going on. A police record needs to be built up around the
behaviors—what behaviors are going on—when they are happening—who's responsible for the
behaviors. Ms. Moermond urged managementlowners to participate in building that police record—help
to resolve the problems as they arlse. She feels thaY the worst thing that can happen is not when the gun
is fired but when the neighbors become apathetic about the gun having been fired. That is not a place
where people want to go have dinner and Iisten to the piano.
Mr. Petry commented that he hopes the people of Frogtown don't become frustrated with all these issues
that they are dealing with. He hopes that they would rally together and do whatever they can to take
back their community. Run out the bad guys. No one wants these bad behaviors where they work
and/or live.
Ms. Moersnond suggested that Dara Thai work on getting their immediate neighbors into their
establishment, perhaps with discounts, etc. She thinks that is more important than appealing to the
clientele of other businesses in the area.
To summarize, Ms. Moermond wants conditions to address:
- a restriction on the ho�s of garbage collection (a modified connact). The business will
discontinue service if the collectar fails to collect during the restricted hours.
- no 2:00 am. license
- restrictions on the entertainment
- no wine and beer past midnight
- call the police and make them write a report
Ms. Moermond took a ten (10) minute recess.
The hearing was reconvened at 12:30 p.m.
D ��/d�3
Mr. Petry asked that they be allowed to get back to Ms. Moermond on Monday, October 29, 2007 in
order to have time to analyze the options. Ms. Moermond responded that perhaps the revised conditions
could be ready for review on either Monday, October 29, 2007 or Tuesday, October 30, 2007; and she
asked Mr. Petry to get back to her on Wednesday, October 31, 2007. She thinks that it may be ready for
the November 14, 2007 City Council agenda.
The hearing was adjourned at 12:40 pm.
Ms. Moermond will recommend approval with the following agreed upon revised conditions:
ljab
10