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06-342Council File # �(o' a, Green Sheet # .303033l0 RESOLUTION CITY OF SAINT PAUL, MINNESOTA Presented By '� WHEREAS, on or about November 2, 2005, the Truth-In-Sale-Of-Housing Boazd (hereinafter the "Board"), acting pursuant to Saint Paul Legislative Code Section 189.10(S), sent a letter to Truth-In-Housing Evaluator Ron 5taeheli indicating its intent to take adverse action against his license on the basis of two complaints; and WHEREAS, the Board alleged that Mr. Staeheli had violated various provisions of the Truth-Tn-Housing ordinance and its adopted guidelines under the provisions of Saint Paul Legislative Code Sections 189.14 and 189.15 and violarions of the Truth-In-Sale-Of-Housing Evaluator Code of Ethics; and 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 3$ 39 40 41 42 43 44 WHEREAS, in its November 2, 2005, letter, the Board advised Mr. Staeheli that a public hearing on these allegations would be held before the Board on November 29, 2005; and WHEREAS, the date of the hearing was changed by request of Ron Staeheli to January 10, 2006, and January 31, 2006. On January 10, 2006, and January 31, 2006, the Board duly conducted public hearings where staff appointed by the Board presented findings of violations on the two complaints alleged against Mr. Staeheli without recommended action; and WHEREAS, Mr. Staeheli, as well as other interested persons, were given the opportunity to testify and present evidence and arguments in defense of the allegations; and WHEREAS, at the close of the public hearings, the Board made seven specific findings. The first finding identified the previous adverse action taken by the Board which demonstrated a "pattern and practice" of errors and omissions in violation of the Truth-In-Sale-Of-Housing policies and procedures for the preparation of reports. The second fmding indicated that Mr. Staeheli was on probation at the time of the April, 2004, inspection of 1638 Middleton Avenue, and that he was on probation during the time of the current disciplinazy hearing when he went to 1638 Middleton without the homeowner's permission. The third and fourth findings indicated omissions in the April, 2004, report prepared by Mr. Staeheli that were life-safety concerns for the homeowner. In finding number five, they determined that Mr. Staeheli's conduct towards the homeowner was in violation of the Code of Ethics for Truth-In-Sale-of-Housing evaluators. In finding number six, the Board found that it was mare likely than not that Mr. Staeheli aided and abetted a phone call to the homeowner to intimidate and solicit information conceming the compiaint. Finding seven identified that the Board's disciplinary procedure was adopted based upon Saint Paul Legislarive Code 310, Uniform License Procedures, which provides that a presumptive penalty for a fourth violation is revocation; and WHEREAS, based upon the above-stated findings, the Board determined that Mr. Staeheli's license would be canceled permanently; and WHEREAS, the Board stated their action was taken for the following reasons: 1. The serious nature of the infractions; 2. The long-term reperirive nature of the violarions; o�-ayz 1 3. Mr. Staeheli's appazent misunderstanding of the mission of the TISH program; 2 and 3 4. The fact that Mr. Staeheli was on probation at the time of the inspection. 4 5 WHEREAS, the findings and deteiminarion were adopted on February 8, 2006, by a 4-1 6 vote; and 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 WI�REAS, the Board at its February 27, 2006, regular meeting adopted a Resolution accepting the findings and deternunation to cancel Mr. Staeheli's license permanently; and WHEREAS, pwsuant to Saint Paul I,egislafive Code Section 189.11, Mr. Staeheli filed an appeal of the Boazd's decision in this matter requesting a public hearing before the Saint Paul City Council for purposes of reviewing the Board's findings; and WHEREAS, the Saint Paul City Council duly conducted a public hearing on Mr. Staeheli's appeal on April 5, 2006, where all interested persons were given the opportunity to be heard and, at the conclusion of the hearing, based upon the recard of the Boazd and all of the testimony and records at the public hearing, the City Council, in a 5-1 vote, moved to confirm the Boazd's decision to permanently cancel Mr. Staeheli's license. NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Council of the City of Saint Paul hereby confirms the decision of the Board to permanently cancel Mr. Staeheli's license as a Truth-In-Sale-of-Housing Evaluator for the City of Saint Paul. Requested by Department oP By: Fortn Ap ve by CiTy Atto ey By: � Fonn roved by Ma}ror for Submission to Council � Adoption Certified by Cowcil Secretary r Br i e.�. Approved by Ma}mr. By: � � ,... Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet co - ��ti Contact Person & Phona: �Aactia Moe'rtroM 266�8570 Must Be on Council Agen� 72-APR-06 ContractType: RE-RESOLlfi1C]fd IX'rAPR-06 � ' A.ssigp Numher For Routing Order Tofal B MSignature Pages _(Clip All Locations for Signalure) Green Sheet NO: 3030336 Deoartrnent SentToPerson 0 1 'r 2 " C 3 4 5 � �Z Memorializing City Council action taken April 5, 2006 upholding the Truth-In-Sale of Housing Boazd's deternrination to cancel the TrutL-In-Sale of Housing license held by Ron Staeheli and denying lus appeal. �da[iorrs: Appm�e (A) or R Planning Commission CIB Committee Cnil Senice Commission Personal Service CoMrects Must 1. Has this persoNfirtn e�er wixked under a contmct forthis departmerrc? Y� No 2 Has this persoNfirm e� been a city employee? Yes No 3. Does this personlfirtn possess a skill not nortnally possessed by any curterrt city empioyee? Yes No Explain atl yes answers on Sepa2te sheet and atfach M green sheet Initiating Problem, issues, Opportunity (INho, Wha; When, Where, Why): AdvanfageslFApproved: DisadvaMages IFApproved: Disadvanfages M Not Approved: �otal Amount ot Trapsaclion: Funding Source: Financial Information: (Explain) Apri) 6, 2006 4:48 PM Costhtevenue Budgeted: Activily Number: Page 1 , � _3c��- w CITIZEN SERVICE OFFICE Sh¢ri Mnore, Ciry Clerk CI� Q�' SAjNT pA�.. 1IOCityHal2 Tel.: b51-266-8989 ChrrstopherS.CaZernan,Mayor ISW.KelloggBoulevard Faz: 651-266-8689 Saint Paul, Minnesota 55702 www.stpauZ.gw February 28, 200b Ran Staeheli AGI 358 Arbor Street Saint Paul, MN 55102 Dear Mr. Staeheli: The City of Saint Paul has received your xequest for an appeal to the Findings of Fact and Nofice of Board Action of the Saint Paul Truth-In-Sale of Housing Board under Chapter 189 of the Saint Paul Legislative Code. Mazcia Moermond has informed me that your appeal before the Saint Paul City Council has been scheduled for Wednesday, Apri15 at 5:30 p.m. in the City Council Chambers on tha third floor of City Hall, 15 W. Kellogg Boulevard. Siacerely, �_�'"�t�,c. /��� Shari Moore City Clerk C:` Mary Erickson, City Council Research , AA-ADA-EEO Employer b�-3�f�- American Central Inspections Service 4300 Blackhawk Rd. Eagan, MN 55122 Ron Staeheli, owner Sherri Moore St. Paul City Clerk February 2�, 2006 Voice: {651) 293-0100 Fax: (651)405-0674 Cell: (612) 865-2004 I am in receipt of a Findings of Fact and Notice of Board Action of the St. Paul Truth in Sale of Housing Board a copy of which is attached. I am appealing that document in its entirety to the City Council as is my right under chapter 189 of the St. Paul Legislative Code. I would like to ask that the hearing be scheduled for any available date after the April 2006 TISH Board meetittg as the facilitator Marcia Moermund asked that the Board vote on the final finding of fact at their next regular meeting. I will need to receive a copy of tkxe transcript from the second part of the disciplinary hearing and also the record of the deliberations and I would like some time for myself and my council to review the documents before the hearing. Please note that chapter 189 requires only that the matter be scheduled within two weeks, not that it be held in any particular time frame, my suggestion is that we wait until the Board passes the final findings of fact before we schedule. With the amount of time these docwnents normally take for preparation and dissemination and the Board passing their fmal findings of fact it will allow adequate time for all parties to prepare. �L� � ��a- I am including a page from the transcript of the January 10, 2006 hearing where Marcia Moermund made her recommendations to have the fmdings memorialized at the Boazds neart meeting or at least have them presented at an open meeting. It is my understanding that the deliberations were closed and that the findings of fact where not prepared in cvriting at the time of their fmal deliberations so they could not have voted on the final text. See lines 19-24 of page 157 of the enciosed transcript. Thank you and call with questions. Sincerely, �� Ron Staeheli 02-13-2006 17:58 BRICE 651293052H CITY OF SAII�3T PAUL L`hli�topher B. CofLmars, 61a}wr FetKUary 10, 2()06 Ron Staeheli ACI 358 Arbcrr Street Srunt pau1, MN 55102 DC� - � �2- PRGE1 OFFICE OF TS7E CPPY ATTORNEY lnhn d. Chni, C'iry Aitomey Civi1 Division 400 City Ilall 15 Wn't ICdk�88 Stvd. Sdirtt Puu� Mu+nru,ra SiIO2 Ietephone: 651286-87f0 Frzrsimitr: G51298-5619 NO`i'[CE OF I3�ARD ACTiON Dcar Mr. Staeheli: This letter andics auac hments are your official notice ofthe Truth-in-Salc-oi'-HouSing Board (hcrcafter TFSH Hotud) decision conceming the complaints from the property owner at 1638 Middleton . A hearing was hcld before the TISII $oard an January I4, 2006 and again on 7attuary 31, 2D06. A� thai hearing the TLSHBchud heard testimony and reviewcd exhibits concernir�g those complaints and all the evidence that yt}u submittcd in yaur dePense. After considering all of the testimony, cxhibits, and evidenec of ree:urd, the "S1SH Baazd made the attached tindings of fact which ure incorporated herein by refcrence and deternuned to eancel your evuivator's license. This determination tivas rcached afterhours ofdclibcration with the final dec}sion being made on February 8,?A06. Canccllationdcfined bytheTISHdisciplinsryproccdureunderResolution#02-d3adcrpted Aprt! 17, 2Q(12, means that your license is withdxawn for an indefinitc time perior.i. Thc TISH Boxrd has determined that yau must immediatcly surrencier your licensc to the Supervisor. 7'herefore, you must surrenderyour ]icense thc next day after receipt of thrs 1Votice by tha c{ose of business_ If you reccive this Noticc on February 10, 2006, ypu must suiren@er your license by thc ctose of business Monday, February 13, 20(}6. You @ave tha right to appea] the cancellacion of your license to the City Counci! within (10) [en calendar days. The {i0} ten day appeal period commences the day after yau neceive tftis Notice. Far example, if you receive this notice on February ] 0, 2006 you must tile yottr apgea] by thc close �f business on Febr�tacy2l, 20Q6. !f an app�pp�iate appeal is filed, the 1'ISH �3oard's decision to cancel your ticense is stayed until AA-Al}A-EEO Empinyer 02-13-2096 17:58 BRICE 6512930520 P a� -3��- there is a final decision by the City Council. The decision of the City Council sh�ll be fu3a1. Sinceraly, F./ 7udith A. Hunson Assistant City At[nmey City of Saint Paul enclosures cc: Bob TSessSer, Dircctnr of LIEP and NHPI cc: Ma�ia Macrmond, I.e�islative Hearing Officer cc: Cdnnie Sandberg, TiSH Program Administrator cc: TISH Bpard Members aa-ann-�eo �npio�� 02-13-2906 17:58 BRICE 651293a526 ��P' � �a PRGE3 Findings af Truth in Sale of Housing (TISH) Board fram Ron Staeheli Disciplinary Hearing Refated to i638 Middleton Ave. From De(lberations in Gtased Sesslon an January 31 and February S, 2p06 F�inding #1: This disciplinary heuring is the fourth occasinn the TISH Boazd has copsidered adverse acdon cm tha TISH license held hy Ron Staeheli. A. The first occasion was on November I5, 2002 about report inconsistency with Evaluazor C=uidelines. In this mateer, the Board declined co hold a disciplinary hearing, with a lettcr to the evaluatar that no board action wauld be taken upon staff recommendation, and the compiaints were closed. There was a letter to evaluator's fiie staling �hai the baard would take actiQn ag�inst xny evaluator whose repnrts indicate a pattern of deviuion frnm the Guidclincs without regard to the severity of items missing frnm the report. B. The second occasion was on November 2A, 2(Xl2 where the Board considered in u Discipiinary hearing on 4 comp)aints of repon inconsistency with Evaluatar Guidetines. In this case the Boazd imposed a 30-day suspension and 1 yefu probation. Tcrms of probalran to be no "name or similar" within the probationary periad ar the evaluator would be subject to unmediate and permancnt Hoense revocation. On 7anuary 8, 2IN33, the Boazd decision was appcaled ta the City Council. Qn September 24, 2003, the City Council �rmcd thc Bourd decision and disci�linaiy xction. Mr, Ron Staeheli's TISH licens;e suspension was imposed for Decembcr 8, 2003 through Januazy 7, 2(H)4. He was placcd on probdtion from January 8, 2004 through January b, 20D5. C. The thied oceasion was c�n December ?, 2fl04 xnd Sanuary 26, 2(3(}S, where the Board eonsiderad in a disoiplinary heuring on 3 compiaints aP report inconsistency with Ev:sluator Guidelines. in this casc, the Board imposed a 30 day suspension and 1 ycar prob:uian for amissians on the 572 Ohio Strcet TiSH report. On Ju1y 2p, 20p5, the City Councit heard Ron Staahcli's appeai af this dceisinn and reverscd ihe Boarci's decision. On August 15, 2DQS, the Mayor vetoed Council reversal and the Boazd decisifln wus imposed. Mr. Ran Staeheli's TTSH license suxpension was imposed for October 5, 2QQ5 through S3ovember 4, 2005. Hc was placed on probaticm for Novembcr 5, 2005 through November 4, 2006. �nding #1 �dopted .Tanuary 31, ?A06 by a 5— p vote. Finding #2: Ron Staehcli was on probation st the time of thc Apri12004 inspection of 1638 Middleton Avenue. I-le was �lso on probatian at the time the discigiinary heariags were heid in lanuary 20b6 und when hc went without permission to Annetta Peters' house with Brice, his son, on 7anuary 12, 2006. Finding #2 adngted S�ebruary $, 2SN15 by a 5— Q vote. Finding #3: The TISH report prepar�d by Ron Stueheli on April 16, 2004 for 163& Middleton Avenue did not indic;rte the electric service mast at the back of house and the eleetriea� serviee drop above the dec:k was too low. 1'he report indicates that the electrieal scrviee, installationlgrounding �U met minimum standards. The problems did not likcly arise after thc report was prepared. Thcse corrections cost the home owner $465.55. The omission of infotmation referring to theae problems constitutes a viotation of Sain[ Paul Legislative Code Chapter 189,14 and i 89.15 and the City of Saint Paul Cade of Ethics for Truth in Salo of Housing Evaluators. ac�-��a- 02-13-2006 17:58 BRICE 6512930520 PA6E4 �5nding #3 adopted February S, 2005 by a 5— 0 vote. Finding #4: The'i'[SH report prepated by Ron Staeheli on April T6, 2U04 for 1638 Middleton Avenue did not indicatc the excreme pr461ems with the waste piping pc�sent in the hQUSe. The report dces indicate that water piping was below minimum standazds with a note that a threaded Caucet lacks backflow protccrion. It also indicates the taundry tub in basement was belaw minimum standard because it drainecf into the sumg basket. Furthcr, it iadicatcs that the plumbing Pixtures in the 6athroam are high haxard because the ballcock is below thc nvarEiow tube in toilet and the hand held shower lacks hacld7ow protection. However, t}te repon indicmes explicitly that waste piping in the hause meets *+�; nimum standards. The prob]ems associated with the waste piping did not likely arise a1'ter the regort was prepared, as the November 7, 2()03 TISH report prepared by Ron StaeheTi indscates that waste piping was bclaw minimum standards with a natc referring to use of impmper material and design, mixed plastics. Probiams assxiated with much of the waste piping were readily visible, including imprapetly secured pipes, pipes lacking proper joints and improper sealing of waste pipes, including n� use of requircd PVC glue which would show up as purple (from the primer} on the whit�s PVC pige. The accumulation of sewer gases were likely dnc to both was�e piping and vcnting prnblems, although at ]cast some of the vcnting systems were not visible at the time of the April 2004 inspection. Thc problems created a life safety pmblem for the nwner and her family and correctian cost the home owner approximately $14,0(70. The omissian pf information rofercing tv the existence and severity of the waste piping prob]ems trum the TISH report an this property constitutes a violation af Saint Paul Leg'tsladve Cocie Chapter 189.14 and 184.15 and the City of Saint Paul Code of Ethics for Truth in Sale of Housing Evt�luators. Finding #4 adopted February S, 2006 by � 5— p vofe. Fieding #5; Ron Staeheli telephoncd Annette Peters on July 24, 20(1S at approximutely 4 p.m. to a5k Lo come see her house, apologizeci f�r the mistake in the inspec;tivn report and asked to work something out with her, outside of the TISH camplaint proecss. Sha dedined and said he would see thc house in the company �f Gi�y insgectots thc next week. Qn Au�vst i, 2005 Ran Staeheli trcatad Annette Peters, thc owner nf 1638 MiddIctan Avenue, in a disrespectful way through his comments toward her and the situation. Further, he videc�txped parts on the interior of her hvme, inciuding documents an her kitchen tab�e, against her expreas�y stated wishes and without her kn4wiedge, Finully, in t4�cse acticros, Ron Staeheli was acting in the capacicy of a Truth in Salc (TiSt� inspe�tor and was, therefore, subject to s��nd;trds and restrictions of suc.h. With these actions, Ron Staeheli aeted in vialation of the City of Saint Paui Code of Ethres fo� Truth in Sale of Housing Evaluators. Finding #5 adopted Februsrq S, 2D06 by a 5— D vote. Finding #6: lt is more likaty than not that Ron Staeheii aided und abetted thc person representing herseiP to Annette Peters as Susan Brown of the Saint Paul City Attorney's Offioc. The �elephone call from said "Susan Brown" camc within the hour of a ca71 ta Annette Peters from Ron Staeheli on July 24, 2005. It had the effect of elicifing infam,ation that tivoutd otherwise nac have been pravided and it intimidtsted Annetto Peters, the camplainant. Tius actian constitutcs a violation of the City of Saint Paul Code of &hics far Truth in Sale of Housing Evaluators. Ftind�g #6 adopted February $, 2005 by a 5— 0 vote. H2-13-2906 17:59 BRICE 651293052H ��0 "�1�� PRGES Pinding #7: Thc'I7SH Board's disciplinary procedure was adopted 6ased on Saint Paul I.e�jslative Code Chapter 314, Unifoxm License Procedums_ It providcs that far a fourth violation msulring in adverse ackion ttte $oard may impose any of the fallowing penalties: revocadon or suspension of the TTSH license for a�i:ced periad of rime, refusal to renew the'PISH license, or canceI]arion of thc TTSH license permenently. 79�ese guidelines are consistent with Saint Paul Legis7ative Code Ghaptez 31Q,Q5 (m) (2j Vioiadon of provisions af ttte Legislxtive Code relating to the ]icensed activity, which provides that the presumptive pentilty for a fourth violatian is revocation. Flading #'T adoptal February 8, 2006 by a 5— 0 vote. Determination: The Suint Paut Z�th ia Sate crf Housing Buard cancels permanenuy the Truth in Sate License held 6y Ron Shacheli. This acdon is taken for the fo�lowing reasons: i) tFie serious nature of the infractions af Rnn Staeheli both in this case and previnus cases heard by the Bosrd; 2) the long-term repefluvc nawre of the viniations of Ron Staeheli; 3) Ron Staehefi's apparent ongoing misunderstanding of thc TTSH prograrn and �ts mission ta provide buyers with information an lhe house they arc purchasing, rather lhan help sellers meet a regulatory requirement; and 3) the fact that Ron Staeheli was on prabation ut the time of the inspecticm in question. Determination sdopted February 8, 2006 by a 4-1 vote, The dissenter nated far the record that in his vicw, a one-year suspension oY Ron Staeheii's'CISH license und subsequent �ve-year prubation was his preferred sanCtion for the violatioas. T1S2i Boacd Mcmbers present were: Jerry Bccdle, Chair; Michael DeTomaso; Faul Finsness; Bob IVxrdi; and James Reiter. Qthers present: 7udith Hanscm, Saint Paul City Attorney's OfGce, Attorney to the Soard; and Marcia Moermond, S�int Paul City Councii Offices, Facilitator. Findings assd Detarmination drafred by Marcia Mocrmond OC�� 3�f� Page 156 1 MS. MOERMOND: We can deal with 2 that here. Some people when the old 3 equipment fails, they don't replace it as = the same. s 6 � 8 9 io ii I j iz i I 13 I I 14 I ' i s I 16 ' i� Zs 19 zo zi , 2z 23 24 25 (651) MR. STAEHELI: I can't stand DVD's. MS. HANSON: And there maybe some discussion about whether or not that will even be admissible. I would like the opportunity to explore that a little bit. MR. STAEHELI: That's fine. Because the video was specifically asked for not to -- and actually what I did was put it down and it still ran and the audio is so much better than the audio recorder that I had in my pocket that I just thought it would be easier. You have less hiss in order to hear exactly what happened, but you guys can have the hiss if you want. MS. MOERMOND: What I would like you to do and what I would like the City to do is develop a11 the materials they want to share based on what they see here, go home, read the packet, look at what the 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 927e12co-cb50-48bd-807d-92baabc00531 ��P'��� Page 157 1 City has provided, if there's things that 2 you want to provide that may sway the 3 Board on the specifics of the complaints, 4 provide that information. � The first point of business when the 6 Board reconvenes will determine the � admissability of what you provided, what 8 the City provided and we will move forward 9 from there. lo I plan on giving you a half an hour 11 similar to the time that we have provided 1z today with a time allotted for Board 13 questions and also for staff. 14 I will formally request after the ls completion of the presentations that the 76 Board close it's meeting to deliberate, so 17 that will be without an audience present 18 and the Board can chose at that point to 19 reconvene publicly or I would rather zo suspect that they will make a decision in zl writing following that and have staff 22 prepare that and vote on that at their 23 next meeting. 24 I would be looking on a vote on the zs individual counts if there's difference of (651) 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 927e12co-cb5�-48hd-Sa7d-92baabc00531 ��-� �� � ❑ � In July of 2005 you granted me an appeal from a 30 day suspension that was given me by the TISH Board. My arguments against that suspension were that I was the only evaluator to have been brought before the Board in the 5 years since the current program administrator took her job. I argued that the process was unprofessional, selective and subjective. You agreed and asked the Board and Staff to develop a Matrix that would take the subjectivity and selective nature out of the disciplinary process lA . Today I am still the only one. In over 35,000 inspections and 50 other evaluators I am still the only one and they are no closer to establishing the unbiased matrix you requested. The Board change parts of their Disciplinary Hearing Process without developing your requested matrix. Some of the reasons the Board gave were that the current way they were doing disciplinary hearings "just did not work" 1 and where "almost . laughable" 2 . a ����I�� �A ����a,�o�� Swnmazy minutes for July 20, 2005 Page 1 S item Si52 I. Transcript of October 12, 2005 TISA Boazd meeting page 4 line 17 z. rru�smpt of Odober 12, 2�05 TISfJ Boazd meetivg page 6 line 5 n� -3��-- � � The Board is basing this recommendation on old discipline arrived at with a laughable 3 , unprofessional process. The Board Chair said, I quote "I totally agree that we need a change in process and we need to be more professional."' This complaint came to the Board from staff with NO recommendation for discipline. In July it was 19 items of variation between my report and a competitors buyers inspection. Now it is about 4 items and the buyers inspection report agreed with me. Last July you found a 30 day suspension excessive and now they are presenting cancellation as reasonable. 3. Transcript of OcCOber 12, 2005 TISH Board meetingpage 4 Iine 1'7 � The City attorney in December of 2003 told the Board that the proper standard of proof was "clear and convincing evidence" 6 The standard they used here is "more likely that noY', That is not even the civil court standard of a preponderance of the evidence. That is just up from "there is a rumor that." Maybe they changed the standard just for me. � 4. Transc�ipt of Qctober 12, 2005 TISH Soard meeting page 71ine 6-7 �. Trms¢ipt of Oc[ober 12, 2��5 TTsx s�t meeting Page 7 Lne 6-7 6. Quoting Judy Hanson off audio tape of December 7, 2003 Boardmeeling 0 (� �3`��- � On the first finding of fact they say that this is the fourth time I have violations proven before the Board, three using their old process. Then they list as the first offense a time when I was not only NOT given a hearing I was also not discinlined. By definition it can't be adverse action if there was no hearing and no discipline. Even if we did have an unbiased Matrix it doesn't help if the number of violations is off. � The second and third disciplines listed are the first and second adverse actions using the old flawed disciplinary process. One of those you agreed was flawed and overturned last July. � 4 � � � Vl.f' �� ! � A Truth in Housing is only good for one year' because it would 7 St Pau] Code CUapter 189.02 (a) not properly reflect the condition of the house after one year. Today the TISH Board wants you to cancel my license because a TISH report I did no longer reflected the condition of the house 16 months after l did my report. All of this with no testimony from anyone about what work they may have done on the house in those 16 months and with a buyers inspection done 6 months after my report which agreed with my report. Every day you send inspectors out to do work that by its very nature is subjective. Yau would think that with no evidence to the contrary the assumption would be that the report was accurate at the time it was made. I would think that the City would want to support the inspectors that are sent out everyday by giving us the benefit of the doubt. Steve Shiller, a city inspector said under oath that he had no idea of the condition of the electric service in April of 2004. 8 Also an electric permit was pulled in Fall of 2004 to install a new AC. 4 If the service drop was hazaxdous at that time the electrician would be required to fix it then. You may also notice that the receipt for the repair said the mast was bent making it drop too close to the deck. lo 5 8 Transcriptof Sanuazy 1Q 2006 Boazd meeting Page 1291'uxs 15-17 and 23-25 Page 1301mes 1-2 9 Copy of web page S[. Paul 1638 Middleton 10 Receiptfrom Crocus HID Electric fot repa'v to damaged service mast d� J ��� � � �_J Not only is there no evidence of the condition on April of 2004 there. is evidence that it was fine in the fall of 2004 when the AC was installed. During all of Steve's testimony he said that he could only comment on the condition of the home when he saw the property 16 months later. He never offered testimony about what was installed or visible in April, 2004 when I did my report. As for the plumbing issues I did my inspection in April of 2004, in that inspection I noted that much of the basement was not visible. I also noted that the visible plumbing meet minimum standards. 12 In August of 2004 a professional buyers inspector inspected the property and agreed with my report. No evidence was presented that dealt with the 16 months between my inspection and Mr. Shiller's inspection for the city, no owners were interviewed, no opinions were given whatsoever. Is it possible that the improper plumbing was installed before my inspection, certainly. However when the city did their inspection 16 months later there were no areas of � ll Page 2 item 2,3,5 April, 2004 TISA repoc 12 Page 2 iiem Ir I l April, 2004 TISH repor ��P '��� � � � that sold the home to Ms Peters installed poor plumbing between when I did my inspection and when they sold i#, could they have hidden the bad plumbing before I did my inspection? Certainly. The assumption was that I missed something because it was there and visible 16 months later. There was no evidence presented that it was installed and visible at the time I did my inspection. Again you would think the City would support their inspectors better than this. The Board acknowledged in its findings of fact that "at least some of the venting problems were not visible in Apri12004." 13 The Plumber that repaired the plumbing testified that the pipes had come apart in the wa11s 14 and Ms. Peters testified she did not discover � the problems until she ripped down the sheet rock in her home. 15 Mr. Shiller testified under oath 6 different times that he, "had no idea when that plumbing was done for that house" 16 he also never testified as to what he thought was visible in April of 2004. 7 13 T1SH Board findings of fact page 4, Finding N4 Pazagaph 2 14 Transcriptof January 10, 2006 Boazt meeting Page 93, lines LZ-25 15 Transcript of January 1Q 2006 TISH Board meeting Page 15. line 15-16 Page 33, line 3-A Page 46, line 6-7 16 Ttatitcriptof January 1Q 2006 TISH ���� Page 121 line 25 Page 1221ine 1 Page 99 line 9-18 Transcrip[ of Januarv 31, 2006 TISH Board meeting Page 103 lines 1-20 Page 99 Imes 20-25 Page 100 lines I D t� ���� � � �.J Ms. Peters testified as though I personally was pumping sewer gas into her home in an attempt to poison her children. She may do that again today and if she was not the person responsible for the improper plumbing it is regrettable that she and her children lived in a house with sewer gas. However her own plumber testified under oath that the sewer gas that was in that house was coming out of the open vent pipes in her walls. " I just cannot see through sheetrock. The only expert to testify under oath, Mr. Shiller, had no idea when the plumbing was installed so how can it be "more likely than not" that it was installed and visible when I did my inspection? Especially when I disclosed that areas of the basement were not visible at the time I did my inspection. I am accused of being disrespectful while acting as an evaluator even though the homeowner denies that I was ever her evaluator 18 and Steve Shiller and I deny that I was ever disrespectful. 19 This is an extreme expansion of any definition in the Code of Ethics. Can a person lose a business license in St. Paul by being late to an appointment? That certainly is disrespectful. Can you imagine trying to cancel a plumbing or liquor license on a � 17 Transcript of Januazy 10, 2006 7TSH Boazd mceting Page 931ine 12-25 18 Transcript of January 31, 2006 TISH Board meeting Pages 75,76 lines 1- 25. 1-6 19 Tranxcriptof 7am�ary 31, 2006 TISH Board ,�� Page 111 Iine 1-12 V4' /�!// � � � charge of being disrespectful? Nowhere does my Code of Ethics use the word disrespectful. Ms. Peters claims she got a phone call, she was clear in her testimony that she knew for a fact that I did not make the phone ca11. 24 She claims they identified themselves, they talked and she gave out information she wishes she wouldn't ha�e. Information like she had worked with the city to cxeate this complaint and that she had a Buyers inspection just before the she bought the house. That Buyers inspection agreed with my TISH report. Based on this the Board found that "I aided and abetted a phone ca11" and that the act of helping someone make a phone ca11 somehow violated the Code of Ethics. They don't say which part of the Code of Ethics I violated. I do not understand how ethics even enter into it. How can it be unethical to defend yourself by gathering truthful information that exonerates you? No one is accusing me of cheating or steeling or any behavior that is un-ethical. Because Ms. Peters would rather T not ha�e truthful information that severely damages her lawsuit the Board says I have acted unethically. E 20 Trmscript of Sanuary 10, 2006 TISH Boazd meeting Page 1301ine 8-1 �lJ' /� 1 � If you read my Code of Ethics you will nat find any reference to � "disrespectful" or "aided and abetted someone to make a phone ca11" What would be unethical is to not defend myself, let the city pay any claim of damages and pass the costs on to the citizens of this city. Your rulings have always said that a business in St. Paul should be able to have very clear ideas about what they can and can't da. Here my Code of Ethics is stretched beyond the breaking point to cover "disrespectful" and "aiding and abetting a phone � call." The Code of ethics can not be possibly be interpreted to include those as violations. The TISH program has a long history. In the 35 years of the program only one evaluator has had his license canceled. That evaluator admitted that he had stolen several thousand dollars in filing fees from the city. He paid them and was allowed to keep his license. He stole more than $1,000.00 again and his license was canceled. The Board is saying with this recommendation that two things get your license canceled in St. Paul, admitting to steeling thousands of dollars, twice and not seeing through n U � �� ���� . sheetrock, being disrespectful to someone who is not your client and aiding and abetting a phone calL I cannot agree thaf they have equal weight. I believe that is why a Matrix was requested. To put violations in some sort of perspective. I aggressively defend myself from these selective and subjective attacks on the business that I worked 15 years to build. Of the other cities with TISH programs none have a problem with my understanding of the programs. The State of Minnesota has no question that I understand the programs as they have licensed me to teach realtors about tkiem. ❑ Clearly the problem is not with me. Clay Larson renounced his seat on the TISH Board after 13 years because he was through dealing with this ongoing attack against my license and the time it took up. He said that other Board members were very angry with me because I appealed their decisions to you. 3acqueline Nicholas, the board member that called the previous hearings against me "laughable" actually choose not to involve herself in this latest attempt on � my license. li p(� -��� � Within 3 days of this Council reversing the decision of the TISH Board in July of 2005 Staff finds a homeowner to create a new complaint. How lucky is that? Only 3 days after one of you pointed out that there were no homeowners complaining against me. Now there is a brand new complaint but they are not done yet. They meet to create a new disciplinary procedure just for me because even they knew the process they had been using was laughable. � 3uly 20, 2005 you said 19 items of variation did not deserve a 30 day suspension. Now they bring you 4 items and they present cancellation as reasonable and equivalent to stealing thousands of dollars. The following in your text is the transcript of the October 12, 2005 TISH Board meeting. This is an full quote of a discussion about this complaint and the Board Chair's opinion of your council meetings. I am going to let you read it for yourself and just point out some quotes. . GERALD BEEDLE: Then if and when as was in the last case it gets appealed to city councii. And then they have another Horse ¢nd BuQgv show, w}aich I saw in 12 �ZQ - � �f 2' � operation down there. I saw all kind a things, Bob wasn't there but he has gone through and he has seen through some of the operations that happen down there, and have a better way and I think we should look into a better way and then that report from that office there findings and so forth that's all could be presented both sides having and having chance to have input into it the decision process, have people handing out literature that this board has never seen, and the council un there shuftlinn thev didn't know which end was up, and with the Dreconeeived decisions alreadv made when that council was agreed down there. I won't go into that in its entirety but I was aUnalled bv what I saw down there and this would cut that out, and stop this in its tracks. It is regrettable that Mr. Beedle is appalled at what he sees down here. I'm glad you are here and I look forward to your decision in this matter. L_.J �.J 13 b l� �3 ��- � In summation the following are my azguments for granting my appeal. (in no particular order) • The TISH Board decided that the process used against me was flawed so they changed it just for me. Then they applied the old discipline to the new allegarions despite their aclrnowledgement of the awed rp ocess that led to the earlier discipline. • The standard of proof used changed from the reasonable Clear and Convincing evidence to the lowest vossible standard of "more l ikely than not." � • The first adverse action listed in the finding of fact from November, 2000 was not an adverse action. • No evidence was presented about the condition of the property in April of 2004. The only evidence that was presented dealt with the property in August of 2005, 4 months after mV report expired and 16 month after it was nrenared The expert testimony could not date the tune of installation of the improper items. • No evidence was presented about any chan�es or lack of chan�es made to the property between April 2004 and August 2005. • Evidence was presented that mv report was accurate when it was prepared, including a professional buyers inspector who prepared a report that agreed with mv renort after l did my report. • Most of the aws with the property were behind the walls of the � building making them not visible at the time of the inspections. 14 b����- � • The allegations that deal with my behavior are not in anyway addressed in the Code of Ethics for my profession. • The allegations that deal with behavior or actions by people other than me are not in anyway addressed in the Code of Ethics for my profession. • An unbiased matrix has never been prepared as the City council requested. • The only precedent in the history of the program for cancellation is the theft of thousands of dollars. • The fmdings of fact are flawed in that they do nat identify the part of the Code of Ethics I was supposed to have violated. A equitable reading of the Code of Ethics can not be reasonablv internreted to include the actions alle�ed • No matrix or precedent was presented to iustifv the nunishment they � recornmend. • The fmdings of fact reference chapter 310 even though the TISH program is contained in chapter 189. They list three violations as four violations and the violarions aze for verv different and unrelated alle�ations: � 15 ��P'���' � Jufy 20, 2005 City Council S�mmary Minutes Page 2 Councilmember Thune requested that Code Eriforcement provide the Council with a report on developing a matrix similar to the system used in the Office of LIEP. � i �l.X /� t // � 1 GERAI,D BEEDLE: Court reporter... 2 PAiJL FINNISES Court reporter as well... 3 BOB NARDI I want to discuss how we're going to conduct this hearing. 4 PAUL FINNiSES Thax comes after the vote. 5 BOB NARDI Ya I've got a 6 GERALD BEEDLE: Well we will pick up on that after we vote. _ we need to discover if 7 a we need to go ahead with his hearing and that is what is at the board right now. All in favor of those going ahead with the hearing regazding these allegations 9 ? Aye, Aye ... 10 11 � 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 � 23 GERALD BEEDLE: All those opposed 9 GERALD BEEDLE: Carried. Now Bob you have something in regard to how to.... BOB NARDI Ya I think we have had at least a couple of these hearings and I personally am... GERALA BEEDI,E: Xa lets set some guidelines BOB NARDI ....troubled by that way... a boazd like this is really not in a position especially in an evidence hearing to take evidence, I think....it just doesn't work. An before I went into private practice I spent some....in the attorney generals office and some of my responsibilities was representing several different boards each of which had authority to discipline and to make decisions were they had to make those decisions based on a record and I know we are limited, severely limited by a budget, but a the way they have always handled those at the state level is a you know the boazd has retained a hearing exanvner who basically acts as a judge and conducts the hearing and at that � o(� -3�a� • 1 JACQITELINE N. I agree with Bob, probably I'm not,1 do not have your legal 2 eapertise but I we are going to go forward with a hearing that we haue an opportunity to 3 hear both sides of the complaint. My biggest concem I have is, time, from the tirne of the 4 complaint ta the time we come down to making some land of niling, the whole process 5 has become almost laughable, if we are going forwazd with tlris we have to 6 simultaneously do something with our process to do something that is not as laughable and then I will agree with what 7im said when we come down to the end and we say this person is guiky there has to be something we have to have the ability to ratchet up a notch but I really do agee with everything Bob Said our process has got to change, its 10 11 � 12 13 I4 got to be a shorter time frame, its got to be more professional, people have to become accountable for the housing evaluators if people ue going to take it seriously at all. GERALD BEEDLE: I agree with what you have to say on this and the many different things that I have dealt with on this there was a first time you get one of these, a second time you get quite a bit more and the third time your, your hitch hiking down the road. I S Go ahead Mike.. 16 MD To....I agree with Mr. Nazdi to anange for the process that Mr. Nardi described 17 � why would that have to come out of our budget. GERALD BEEDLE: The details we are going to have to work out. 19 CONNIE SANDBERG Ahh, well, and That raises a very good quesrion and I do 20 21 22 � 23 not lrnow what land of room we have within our bylaws, to do or delegate what has been given to the Board to do, the city does have a hearing examiner and citations that aze issued by this department go before that examiners all the time. Truth in Housing never has, and I don't know what we would have to do in terms of the �isting bureaucracy to 0 o� ��� � � get something to go before the city hearing exazniner in which case if we could use that 2 person it is part of. Its aiready paid for by the city and don't know that it would cost anything extra out of ow budget, although I suppose I think that it conceivably could but 4 it is something I, I have to ask a bunch of different people a bunch of different questions 5 so... 6 CsERA.LD BEEDLE: If we need to, I agree with Mr. Nazdi that we try I totally agree that 7 we need a change in process and we need to be more professional. 8 CONNIE SANDBERG Attd I did years ago, a couple years ago I think when this 9 whole series of things started I talked with our hearing examiner outside of city hall one 10 11 day, You know it was a very informai conversation and I don't even remember if she would remember it now... 12 GERALD BEEDLE: Then if and when as was in the last case it gets appealed to city 13 14 15 16 1� 18 19 ZO 21 22 council. And then they have another Horse and Buggy show, which I saw in operation down there. I saw all kind a things, Bob wasn't there but he has gone through and he has seen through some of the operations that happen down there, and have a better way and I think we should look into a better way and then that report from that oflice there findings and so forth that's al] could be presented both sides having and having chance to have input into it the decision process, have people handing out literature that this boazd has never seen, and the council up there shutIling, they didn't know which end was up, and with the preconceived decisions already made when that council was agreed down there. I won't go into that in its entirety but I was appalled by what I saw down there and this would cut that out, and stop this in its tracks. � �Y / / � � � C Sec. 189.02, Valid'Ry of disclosure report. (a) A disciosure report is valid for three hundred si�:ty-five (365) consecutive days frem the date of its issuance. (b) The report is valid only for the owner who is listed on the disclosure report. (c) The report must be completed and signed by an evaluator licensed under this ordinance. The only ficensed evaluator who may sign the report is the evaluator who performed the inspedion and aiso wrote the report for the particular address. (d) The report is valid for only one sale during its three hundred sixty-five (365) consecutive day Iifetime. (Ord. No. 17732, § 2, 5-3-90; C.F. No. 01-1189, § 1, 12-5-OS; C.F. No. 03-1095, § 1, 1-14-04) CJ ���3�, ` 1 r z 3 4 5 s 7 s 9 io ii iz 13 �4 is 16 i� ia 19 20 Page 129 got from the licensed plumber when we were on-site, that was one of the things that we were trying to cover by the word design and also the fact that there was back pitch on the plumbing also which we haven't really addressed much, but it`s visible in the picture. MR. FINSNESS: Thank you. MS. MOERMOND: Anybody else from th.e Board have questions a� this time? Ms. Hanson? Okay. MR. STAEAELI: I thought I had another question and I just wanted a clarification again. What was the condition of the service drop in April of 2004? MR. SCHILLER: I do not know. MR. STAEHELI: Thank you. MR. SCHILLER: I only know in July. zl MR. STAEHELI: Of 2005? 22 MR. SCHILLER: 2005. z3 MR. STAEHELI: So you have no 24 idea what the conclition was in April of 25 2004? .(651) 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 927e12cccb50�48bd-807d32baabc00531 �� l � Page 130 i Z 3 4 s 6 7 s 9 10 ii iz 13 4 15 16 i� is is zo zi z2 23 24 zs ,.. � ............. _.. . .. .. . {651) MR. SCHILLER: I cannot know something if I have never been there. MR. STAEHELI: I appreciate it and I appreciate your honesty. Thank you. MR. SCHILLER: Anything else? MR. STAEHELI: No. I would like to call Annette back please. Was it me who called you and said they worked for the City attorney's office? MS. PETERS: No. MR. STAEHELI: Thank you. Now, you had a buyer's inspection done by Premier Inspections. Is that correct? MS. PETERS: Yes. MR. STAEHELI: The buyer inspector -- who knew that you had a buyer's inspection by Premier Inspections. MS. PETERS: The -- I explained it to the caller that represented herself as Susan Brown from the City Attorney's Office. MR. STAEHELI: I mean way before, September of 2004, excuse me for 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 927e72cccb50d8bd-S07d�2baabe00531 �t raui s rermiL �nune rage i ui � �� ���0 � ___..�`�� 5 � . , ;. .. . ,.,.._. . _.... . ��� t,. '.� .,_';„� , ����j ��fo � �la�r�� C���y �n��c� � Web Co���c� ' Data Disclaimer:- The City of Saint Paul and its officials, officers, employees or agents does not war2nt the accuracy, reliability or timetiness of any "rnformation published by this system, and shall not be held liabte fnr any losses wused by raliance on the accuracy, reliability or timeliness of such information. Portions of such information may be incorrect or not current. Any person or entity that reties on arty informatio� ohtai�ed from this system does so at his or her own risk. OS 159538 1638 Piumbing(Gasfitting/Inside Water Piping PLB 00 PG MIDDLETON Type: Plumbing/Inside Water (All) Residential Replace AVE Issued Date: 09/20(2005 � FnalDate: 10/04J2005 Contrector: 2e11 Plumbing Inc Estimated Value: $6,800.00 � OS 138609 1638 ELC 00 E MIDDLETON AVE Activity (most recent first): MAIN-Plumbing Inspection: SO/03/2005: Final 09/27J2005: Approved Electrical Permit Type: Electrical Residential Repair/Alter Issued Date: 07/29/2005 Contractor. Crocus Hill Electric Estimated Value: $1,000.00 Electricaf Permit Type: Saver Switch Only Residential Repair/Alter Issued Date: O1j28(2005 Contractor: Hunt Electric Corporation Estimated Value: $100.00 Electriral Permit Type: Service and Circuits Residential Repair/Alter Issued Date: 30/11/2004 Contractor: Royalton HeaYing And Cooling, Inc. Estimated Value: $280.00 Mechanical Permit Type: Refrigeration Residentfal Replace Issued Date: SO/11/2004 Contractor: Royalton Heating And Cooling, Inc. Estimated Value: $1,400.00 Building Permit Type: Single Family Dwelling Express Repair Issued Date: 08J25/2004 Final Date: 09/07/2004 Contrector. Century Roofing Inc State Valuation: $1,800.00 OS 055112 1638 SAV 00 E MIDDLETON AVE 04 165788 1638 SandC 00 E MIDOLETON AVE 04 165757 1638 REF 00 M MTDD�ETON AVE 04 137568 1638 IXP 00 B MIDDLETON AVE � Activity (most recent first): Finai Inspection: 09)07(2004: Final Pre�iminary Inspection: 09f�2(2004: Corrections Required 08(31/2004: Verbal Order 00 151375 1638 O8-Auq-2003: Building Permit RPR 00 B MIDDLETON FOLDER CLOSED BYType: Single Family Dweiling Repair AVE SYSTEM DUE TO NOISSUed Date: 12(04(2000 ACTIVITY IN ONE Final Date: 08/08/2003 YEAR. Windows-Add Contractor: Valley Constr Windows Siding Sunrooms Inc Insert Wdw. State Valuation: $1,250.00 https://www.onestopgov.comlOSG/jag_kernel_xml.j sp Finaled Active/Issued ActiveJIssued Active/Issued Adive/Issued Finaled Closed 3/28/2006 �s J -, v j'1- : � ,� _' T �� W Q � o m� o� � � � Z J � J Q m W � LL Z n Q v F W LLI U _ � � � Y a , U O � � w o� U W W Z � Q Z aW OQo U 0 � J � Z � _ � � N � LL J O V W Q N O� Ua�o�� 2 m � _ � �cY�c^I `���� I � I I wTI � i � 1 I � I I � ��� �������� `� � .. � � o��IIIIfI � o � �r , J \ v i� �:.i � �� m - �� o �1;� F 9 ' r� C� u � i` .� r_ `j y c . , o; �,� � � � � 4 � �' 1 [, j r` � 1� 0 r F � � O w . � � O � � 0 W w z ? z a � 4 � �: � .7 � �� i � � � s '' V ` 3 �-t% a ' � o � `� � � ��rt z� �- �i .0 G � �= 3 �` � � -�� � O � � C ,� ° � ' Oj G�� O . �� � � � � j � O � !� �-� � � }`-J � �., , L � i �S � � S �.Z . �' � 7 _ � � = - -t.. M, � ` �" � ' ` v ��' ` [0� i � N �� � �I --{ � � � � � \ '� � J�I� ' o :� _ -1, � � LL � �, 's , v",` -�. ` W `v � ' `�'-' i , = i L: � S ..,, : Y ^% `, `:� „ �: ': �� : � � ��` �� � :��-� L �'v ��' � �. � i I i i �� w Q O � � �� ..._...,.. ... .. ""'_'. -. _... __. Prope::y address: 1635 I�IIddleton � B.�SE�IE\�I'lCELLAR I. Stairs and Handrails ..................... "'. BaszmenUcellar fleer ..................... 3. Feundaticn ................................... 4 E�idznce ef dampness er stau�ing...... �. FL*st flcer, fleer system .................... 6 Beams and columns ........................ ELECTRICAL SER�'ICES(S) n of Services .............1 7. Service size: Amps : 30 X 150 other_ � V olts : 115 - 1157230 X B�SE�IE�T ONLI' S. Elzchical service installation tgrounding. M 9. Elech�cal wiring, outlets and firhues... B 9 Somz light usz extensien cord wv'uig See pazc i for renng key Item # Comments � ����� B I Imprepzr stairnay and compenents, deer opens ocer steps hi C 3,5,6 Incomplete basemen� not zll visible Y.� 4 OI watzr �f u PLInIBPi iG SYSTE\-I 10. Floor drain(s) (buement) ...................... 11. Waste and vent piping (all floots) ............. 12. Watzr piping (all floo�) ........................ 13. Cras piping (aU floocs} ............... 4. Watzr heater(s) installation............ Water heater(s) venting ..................... . Plumbing 5xtwes (basement) ................. HEATL�iG SYSTENI(S� # of ... ...... ... . M M B 12 B 13 M M B 16 1 Threaded faucet lac}5 baclQlow protectien Some improper gas supply piping Laundry tub drains to sump baskzt. 17. Heating plant(s): Fue1: GAS Type: FA a Iiutaliation and visible cenditien M b. Viewed in operatien crc c. Cembustionventing .................. M The E��al¢ator is not tequired to ignite the lieating plant(s) escept during the heating season, betrveen October 15 and April 15. 1 S. /�ddiaonai hzating unit(s) Fuel: GAS Type: a. Installatien and visible condition b. Viewed in operarion ............. .... c. Cembusticn venting ..................... i 9. 9DDITIO\AL CO�i�fENIS (1 THROUGH 18)...M �ALUATOR: Amencan Central Inspections, Ron Staeheli DATE: 04-16-2004 Page 2 of 4 Rev ]/2004 Page 93 1 z 3 4 5 6 � 8 9 io ii ia 13 14 ss 16 i� is 19 zo zi za 23 24 as ....,..: .t..65�1) • sewer gas could have been leaking from open pipes in the wall? You did the repair. I mean, you were able to see inside the walls that I wasn`t able to see. MR. ZELL: Well, just a clarification, the pipes that leaked from the roof, we didn't even know if it was connected to the venting, never was, but we didn't know that until you go to pull it out so you can't tell. The pipes that were in the wall had already come apart so the fittings -- yes, they weren't glued, so as the vertical sections fell which is why probably some of it was back ditched, once the weight of that pipe is now no longer connected, as it falls it pushes the other pipe backwards so now you have got back pitch and you have an open pipe at the top. MR_ STAEHELI: But most of what was causing the sewer gas or at least some of what was causing the sewer gas in the house was completely inside the walls? MR. ZELL: Sure. 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 927e12ce�cb5048bdS07d�92baabc00531 �� ���� Page 15 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 io il go right down into the cabinet, so I got a plumber to replace that underneath there. So I did a few things that I thought, well, maybe something is causing that smell, but it just never did go away so I just tried opening windows, venting kind of the air as much as I could. MR. MAGNER: At that point in time did you have anyone come out, contact anyone, have them investigate the situation? 1z MS. PETERS: Well, what happened 13 was during a rainstorm I discovered that �q there was water leaking through my ls sheetrock outside the bathroom and I 16 ripped the sheetrock down and saw a vent 17 pipe cutoff in the wall and I thought, oh, 18 my goodness, I was a little bit worried 19 about that. 20 I called a plumber. I thought, wellF 21 maybe I better have a plumber look at this zz 23 z4 zs • (651) so I had a plumber out. It was Mr. Rooter and I have an estimate from them. MR. MAGNER: Is this the estimate that -- 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 927e12cccb50-08bd-807tl92baabc00531 Page 33 1 was sheetrock that had to be removed, 2 painting, putting sheetrock back on, all 3 the plumbing fixtures had to be ripped 4 s 6 � s 9 out, the floor, so there's a11 those expenses that came to about $14,000.00 total and then there's just -- there isn't necessarily financial expense, but moving the kids and having to work with trying to stay out of the house and move things lo around and the kids and I had surgery at 11 that time so I was trying to juggle the lz kids and have an operation and have -- we 13 didn't have a bathroom so I was trying to � manage the workers and it was pret�y ls rough. 16 i� MR. MAGNER: There's a response that Ms. Peters -- there's a response 18 Mr. Staeheli report regarding the 19 complaints and about his behavior. 20 Do you have any reaction to this 21 point of the repeated statement that is as 22 the complaint has already quoted staff as 23 promised that for your cooperation in this z4 complaint that both repairs would -- that 25 both repairs would be done to your home by i (651) 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 927e12cccb50-086d-807d�2baabc00531 6(e'3�2- Page 46 �1 z 3 4 s 6 � a 9 io ii iz 13 �4 ls 16 i� ia so there was the water -- there was a vent pipe on the roof and the water was going down in to the vent pipe and the vent pipe was cut off in the wall and it was flooding sheetrock. So when I ripped the sheetrock apart I noticed the water -- I looked out the pipe and I could see the sky and I thought, well, that's a vent pipe and I thought, boy, I wonder where that goes. Well, I know from years before that they had kind of remodeled the house and moved the bathroom and stuff years ago, so that's when I thought, oh, oh, I wonder if there's a plumbing thing here where there's no venting or something. It just kind of occurred to me so that's when I thought, well, I am just going to get a 19 plumber because I don't know what's 20 happening here. ai MR. BEEDLE: Prior to the 2z leakage and you discovering it was 1'eaking z3 through there, did you have any 24 indication, staining or anything, to 25 indicate that there might have been a i (651) 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 927e�2cc�b50d86d$07d�2baabc00531 o� �3��- i M z 3 4 s 6 � s 9 io il 12 13 14 Page 121 MR. SCHILLER: The mast head could have failed and tipped. MR. STAEHELI: The mast tip could have failed and came off? MR. SCHILLER: The mast heacl was not off. MR. STAEHELI: How do you know? You weren't on the roof. MR. SCHILLER: I was looking -- I was within a foot of it looking at it. MR. STAEHELI: You just said the mast had failed. MR. SCHILLER: I said it could have. ls MR. STAEHELI: If the mast had 16 failed, would you have seen that? 17 MR. SCHILLER: It would have 18 beeri on the other side of my view. 19 MR. STAEHELI: Now, you have 20 said again, that the -- maybe you haven't 21 said this yet, the plumbing issues that 2z you have no idea when they were installed 23 in the basement were open and obvious. 24 Is that correct? 25 MR. SCHILLER: I have no idea � t651) 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 927e12cccb50-48btlS07d-92baabc00531 '�J��' Page 122 1 when the plumbing was done for that house. z MR. STAEHELI: I understand 3 that, but when you walked,in in Angust of 4 2005 -- s 6 � e 9 io ii 12 13 �14 � is 16 i� is MR. SCHILLER: No, I walked in in July. MR. STAEHELI: You walked in in July of 2005. MR. SCHILZER: It's important because I was there twice. MR. STAEHELI: I understand. The first time or second time, because I'm not actually thinking that the plumbing changed, when you walked down there for the first time, you saw it -- was the plumbing problem open and obvious? I mean Zell said -- MR. SCHILLER: Some of them � were, yes. zo MR. STAEHELI: Been Zell said 21 that they were just numerous and they were 2z everywliere . 23 MR. SCHILLER: They appeared to 24 be everywhere, yes. zs MR. STAEHELI: So any competent �(651) 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 927e12cecb5018bd�07tl�92baabcD0531 o�����— � z 3 4 s 6 7 s 9 io I1 zz 13 4 is 16 i� is 19 zo 21 a2 23 24 ZS � (651) Page 99 Any other questions of Mr. Zell? Thank you. It`s all your's, Mr. Staeheli. MR. STAEHELI: Okay. I think we're going to do this in exact reverse order. If Steve could come up, please. Okay. when was the plumlaing that was improper install�d? MR. SCHILLER: When was the plumbing -- MR. STAEHELI: That was improper. MR, SCHILLEEt: That we took pictures of that were installed at that house? MR. STAEHELI: Yes. MR. SCHILLER; No idea. MR, STAEHELI: Okay. A Truth-in-Housing is a visual inspection, is that correct, it`s only to look at what's visible? MR. SCHILLER: As I understand it, correct. MR. STAEHELT: We11, let`s see 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-855d toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 927e12cc�cb50�48bd�07d�92baabc00531 D(��3y�- � u u 7 MFt. SCFIILLER: No, there was some 2 combinations. 3 Mft. STAEHELI: But basically most q of the problem was with the PVC, xight? 5 MR. SCAILLER: 2'm saying there 6 was combinations and as I understand it 7 combinations is not a proper way of doing 8 plumbing. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2Q 25 MR. STAEHELI: That's fine. I never mean to imply that I-- MR. SCHILLER: Whether it's a little mix on the plumbing on materials or a lot of mix on the plumbing materials, that's what I have been told is not correct. MR. STAEHELI: If plumbing is not prope.rly installed and is not glued toqether, is it going to come apart sooner or later? MR. SCHILLER: I have no idea. That's why I said I was suxprised. MR. STAEHELI: Because you had no idea how long it had there. It may have been there a yeai. It may have been there five years. (651) 681-B550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll fsee www.johnsonreporting.com � �(� - � u a- � 1�.._.� � 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1S 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 P42. SCHILLER: Cauld be. ME2. STAEHELI: No idea when it was installed at all. MR. SCHILLER: Other than the labels that were on some of the waste lines that were from Knox Lumber and Knox Lumber is just down the street from me a half a mile from my house. I should have bought stock when I bought my house and I am very familiar with it and it went out of business a number of years ago. MR. STAEHELS: How long aie fittinqs good for? MR. SCHILLER: What kind of fittings? MR. STAEHELI: PVC fittings. MR. SCHILLER: Fittings if everything is properly installed -- MF. STAEHELI: No, S don't mean installed. I mean in stock. If you 3aought them at Knox 15 years aqo could I instaZl them tomorrow? MR. SCHILLER: To the best of my knowledge, yes, and that`s a disclaimer because I am not a certified plumber. (651) 681-8550 phone 1-87�-681-8550 to11 free www.johnsonxeporting.com �oo �l� ' � �a � � � 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 26 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 no idea the condition it was in in April of 2004, this is Page 129 of the January lOth meeting, and your answer was I cannot know something zf I have never been there. Is that coirect? MFt. SCHILLER: Correct. MR. STAEHELI: Do you stand by that testimony? MR. SCHII,I,ING: Riqht, I can only tell you what I saw in late Suly of 2005. MR. STAEHELI: The plumbing issues you have no idea when they wete installed in the basement were open and obvious. Is that correct? I have no idea when the plumbing was done for that house. Is that your answer? MS. PETERS: An exact time, no. MR. STAEHELI: And then also we were talking about earliet, and I kind oE got to hurry this alonq, in your testimony I asked you if the service head was right next to the gutter and you said it was. MR. SCHILLING: I said it was (651) 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 203 � � � � • 7 f 1 z 3 4 5 6 � e 9 �o ii 12 13 �4 is 16 i� ia 19 20 21 sewer gas could have been.leaking from open pipes in the wall? You did the repair. I mean, you were able to see inside the walls that I wasn't able to see. MR. ZELZ: Well, just a clarification, the pipes that leaked from the roof, we didn't even know if it was connected to the venting, never was, but we didn't know that until you go to pull it out so you can't tell. The pipes that were in the wall had already come apart so the fittings -- yes, they weren't glued, so as the vertical sections fell which is why probably some of it was back ditched, once the weight of that pipe is now no longer connected, as it falls it pushes the other pipe backwards so now you have got back pitch and you have an open pipe at the top. MR. STAEHEI,I: But most of what 2z was causing the sewer gas or at least some 23 of what was causing the sewer gas in the z4 house was completely inside the walls? zs � (651) MR. ZELL: Sure. 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 927e�2cccb50d8btlS07d�2baabc0053� d1�-3�`� � � i 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. STAEHEI,2: For you? MS. PETERS: No. MF2. STAEHELI: Have you eves hired me to do anything for you? MS. PETERS: No. MR. STAEHELI: How much money have you paid me? MS. PETERS: For what? MR. STAEHELZ: For anything. Have you ever paid me any money? MS. PETERS: No. MR. STAEHELI: Have you ever called my office? MS. PETERS: No. MR. STAEHELI: Did you ever solicit me or find me out in the world? MS. PETERS: No. MR. STAEHELI: Did you eve= call me o£f a list of evaluators? MS. PETERS: No. MR, STAEHELI: Have you ever approached me to do a Truth-In-Sale of Housing iepoxt. MS. PETERS: No. MR. STAEHEI,I: Have I eves done (651) 681-8550 phone 1-877-661-855Q toll free www.johnsonreporting.com 75 O l� - � y�- � L_ J L.J 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 one for -- never did one for any piior properties that you sold or nevez seen me be£oze August 1st? MS. PETERS: No. MR. STREHELI: And you never asked me to do a TISH inspection. When did you first see yous new house? MS. PETERS: I cou7.<3 probably look at my notes. MR. STAEHELI: Within a month. MS. PETERS: I bought it in September. I think I laoked at it in August. MR. STAEHELI: How lonq did it take Zell to make the repairs to your house? Fxom the day he started until the day he was done, how long did it take to replumb the whole house? zp MS. PETERS: I think he was 21 there about a week. z2 MR. STAEI3ELI: So he got it all 23 done in a week? To do it right, it took 24 him a week to get it done, right? 25 MS. PETERS: Yes. (651) 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free wsaw.johnsonreporting.com � D� �3 ��- ��� � ` J � 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 you can't remember the content, what was your -- MF2. SCHILLER: There was not shouting or get off my property ox pessonal attacks on either sides, callinq each other names or anything Iike that that I would call a heated exchange. I have seen heated exchanges before and this was not a heated exchange. M5. HANSON: Were voices raised? MR. SCHILLER: Not in my 12 opinion, no. 13 MS. M6ERMOND: Mz. Beedle. 14 MR. BEEDLE: You said that you 15 had viewed the video, short os long 16 vezsion? 1� MR. SCHILLER; The short one. 18 ' MR. BEEDLE: In viewing that I9 video, if yau secall, when you were down 20 in the basement and Bryce was down there 21 and/ox whoever else and Ron had gone 22 upstai=s and Annette Peters had been 23 downstairs but for whatever reason, and I 24 think she e�cplained that well, she went 2$ upstairs and she and Ron started talking, {6511 681-8550 phone 2-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreportinq.com DI�- ���- Page 130 r i 2 3 4 s 6 7 s 9 io ii 12 13 � 15 16 z� is 19 ao zi z2 23 MR. SCHIZLER: I cannot know something if I have.never been there. MR. STAEHELI: I appreciate it and I appreciate your honesty. Thank you. MR. SCHILLER: Anything else? MR. STAEHELI: No. I would like to call Annette back please. Was it me who called you and said they worked for the City attorney's office? MS. PETERS: No. MR. STAEHELI: Thank you. Now, you had a buyer's inspection done by Premier Inspections. Is that correct? MS. PETERS: Yes. MR. STAEHELI: The buyer inspector -- who knew that you had a buyer's inspection by Premier Inspections. MS. PETERS: The -- I explained it to the caller that represented herself as Susan Brown from the City Attorney's Office. z4 MR. STAEHEI,I: I mean way 25 before, September of 2004, excuse me for �(651} 681-8550 phone 1-877-681-8550 toll free www.johnsonreporting,com 927e12cccb50-08bd�07d�2baabc0053 1._ J American Central Inspections Service 4300 Blackhawk Rd. Eagan, MN 55122 Ron Staeheli, owner Jim Reiter TISH Board member c/o Connie Sandborg, Program Clerk Mr. Reiter Voice: (651) 293-0100 Faa: (651)405-0674 Cell: (612) 86,5-2004 ��-��{� This letter is to respectfully request that you exclude yourself from the upcoming TISH Board hearing as it regards staff complaints against me. Your pulilic statement at the October 12, 2005 TISH Board meeting about what the discipline for this complaint should be, comments to 'City Council Members, active work to create compiaints against me by investigating my business, lobbying the Mayor to veto � the granting of my appeal by the City Council, are all reasons that you can not now sit in judgment of ine. You of course can reject this request to remove yourself but it will become a subject of my appeal of any subsequent discipiine that my come to pass as a result of the upcoming hearing. I would think thai in an effort to respect your fellow Board members and theu time you would try to limit the number of issues that I will be able to use in any appeal. If you do attend I will enter this letter into the record or you could save yourself 3-4 hours on a cold January night and do the right thing. Thank you for your time and consideration of my concerns. Sincerely, � ���� Ron Staeheli � � American Central Inspections Service 4300 Biackhawk Rd. Eagan, MN 55122 Ron Staeheli, owner Gerald Beedle TISH Board Chair clo Connie Sandborg, Program Clerk Mr. Beedle, Voice: (651) 293-0100 Fax: (651) 4Q5-0674 Cell: (612} 865-2004 D(� This letter is to respectfully request that you exclude yourself from the upcoming TISH Board hearing as it regards staffcomplaints against me. Your many public statements at the October 12, 2005 TISH Board meeting about what the discipline for this complaint should be ("hitch hiking down the road"), other comments from the chair at Board meetings, comments before the City Council, lobbying the Mayor to veto � the granting of my appeal by the City Council, public acknowledgement of your inability to run a disciplinary hearing, are al1 reasons that you can not now sit in judgment of ine. You of course can reject this request to remove yourself but it will become a subject of my appeal of any subsequent discipline that my come to pass as a result of the upcoming hearing, I would think that in an effort to respect your fellow Board members and their time you would try to limit the number of issues that I will be able to use in any appeal. If you choose to ignore this request and attend the hearing I will enter this letter into the record. In the altemative you could saue yourself 3-4 hours on a cold January night and do the right thing. Thaak you for your time and consideration of my concerns. Sincerely, C=_ ��c + �* - � - �?g���'� -�� � Ron Staeheli