04-1089Council File # �
CITY
Presented b}
Referred To
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RESOLUTION
SAINT PAUL, MINNESOTA
/
Committee Date
WI�REAS, the Legislative Hearing Officer recommends that the license appl' ation (ID # 20000005383) for a
Cabazet Class A License by Thomas Terlizzo, owner, doing business as Ter ' ds, 821 Rayxnond Avenue, be
referred to an Administrative Law Judge;
THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Council of the City of S' t Paul hereby refers this license
application to an Administrative Law Judge.
Requested by Department of.
Benan
Bostrom
Harris
Helgen
Lan fry
Montgomery
Thune
Green Sheet # 3024117
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Form Approved by CiTy Attorney
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Adopted by
Adoprion C
By:
X Date
by Council Secretary
Mayor: Date
Approved by Mayor for Submission to Council
By:
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� Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet �
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Department/officefcouncil: Date Initiated: `� � �
co ��a�.� o�NO�-� Green Sheet NO: 3024117
Contact Person & Phone- Deoartrnent Sent To Pe'soa lnitialfDate
Marcia Mcertnond � 0 ouncil I !
266-8560 q 1 ouncil De artment Director
Must Be on Council Agenda by (Date): Number z itv Clerk I
For
Routing 3
Order 4
5
Total # of Signature Pages _(Clip All Locations for Signature)
Action Requested:
Referring the Cabazet Class A License by Thomas Terlizzo, owner, DBA Terlizzo's, 821 Raymond Avenue, to an Administrative Law
Judge.
Recommeadatfons: Approve (A) or Rejed (R): Personal Service Contracts Must Answer the Following Questions:
Planning Commission �. Has this person/firm ever worked under a contract for this department?
CIB Committee Yes No
Civil Service Commission 2. Has this person/firm ever been a city employee?
Yes No
3. Does this person/firm possess a skill not normally possessed by any
current city employee?
Yes No
Explain all yes answers on separate sheet and attach to green sheet
Initiating Problem, Issues, Opportunity (Who, What, When, Where, Why):
f
AdvanWS�es IfApproved: . -
��un�6i I����arch �enter
DisadvanW5les IfApproved: ��� � � ° ���r.
Disadvantages If Not Approved:
TotalAmountof CostlRevenue Budgeted:
Trensaction:
Funding Source: ActiviN Number:
Fi nancial Information:
(Explain)
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MINLJTES OF TF� LEGISLATIVE HEARING
T'ERLIZZO RESTAURANT, 821 Raymond Avenue
Thursday, September 23, 2004
Room 330 Courthouse
Mazcia Moermond, I.egislative Hearing Officer
The hearing was called to order at 2:00 p.m
STAFF PRESENT: Christine Rozek and Kristina Schweinler, License, Inspecrions and
Environmental Protection (LIEP) and Jean Birkholz, City Council Office.
OTHERS PRESENT: Susan Thrash and Joseph Ring, co-owners of J. Ring Glass Studio Inc.
Marcia Moermond explained that this hearing is not expecting the owner, Tom Terlizzo. He called
the office this moming asking that the hearing today be cancelled because he may have pneumonia
and his attomey also cannot attend. Ms. Moermond told him that if he cancelled today, he would
need to agree to a time certain to have the hearing continue. Ms. Moermond stated that she would
like to get the testimony of those present today, which might save them another trip to City Hall.
The hearing will continue at 330 p.m, Tuesday, October 5, 2004, at which point Ms. Moermond
does expect Mr. Terlizzo and his attorney to be in attendance.
Ms. Moermond stated that the license that has been applied for is Class N which means the
neighbors get notified about the application. Neighbors are invited to share their concerns,
objections, etc., and a hearing is held to talk about those. Ms. Moermond continued to say that she
conducts these hearings for the City Council. There are three (3) potential outcomes with license
hearings: 1) she can recommend to the City Council that the Council send it to an adtmnistrative
law judge (that would be for cases where she doesn't think there's any other alternative); 2) she can
recommend that the license be issued without conditions; or 3) she can recommend that the license
be issued with condirions that the applicant agrees to. In order to deny an application at this level, it
needs to go to an administrative law judge for review. When it goes to the City Council, the
Council will, typically not discuss it. It will be a resolution on their Consent Agenda; an item that
they pass along with another twenty or thiriy items all in one motion.
Christine Rozek (LIEP) provided a staff report. She stated that this is an application byTom
Terlizzo for a Cabaret License at 821 Raymond Avenue. A Cabaret License pernuts an
establishment that does not serve alcohol to have entertainment in the establishxnent. IYs not
required for a Cabaret License that Environmental Health do an inspection. Fire has indicated that
they will approve this license. Zoning also has approved this license. At this point, LIEP is not
making a recommendation.
Joseph Ring testified that he and his wife, Susan Thrash, own the building at 2408 Territorial Road,
across the street from Terlizzo's.
Ms. Moermond read a letter, dated August 3, 2004, from both Mr. Ring and Ms. Thrash, in which
they objected to granting a Cabaret License to Mr. Terlizzo because he has provided entertainment
at that location in the past without a license, demonstrating a disregard for the obligations and
responsibilities that a holder of this license has to the public. Ms. Moermond inquired if that was
the sum of their concerns. Mr. Ring replied that at the time they wrote this letter, they had no way
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LEGISLA'I`IVE HEAIZING - Terlizzo's at 821 Raymond Avenue Page 2
of being able to demonstrate that they had been served alcohol on the premises. He and Ms. Thrash
had always assumed that Mr. Terlizzo was operating legally. They were aghast when they realized
that he did not have a license to seroe alcohol. So, they sent another letter, dated, August 21, 2004,
which included a copy of the invoice from Mr. Terlizzo for the celebrarion of Ms. Thrash's 50`�
birthday party, at which they were served alcohol and subsequently, charged for it. In talkiug with
his legal and insurance counsel, Mr. Ring leamed that Mr. Terlizzo had put them in a very bad
situarion, potenrially. Mr. Ring noted that he and his wife have been very acrive within their
communiries, business and home; and they aze very firm believers that owning a business is not just
a right, it is also an obligation. An obligation to the community, to patrons and to the rules set by the
state, the city and the community. Excuses like, `I didn't lrnow,' etc., just don't cut the ice. When
one shows that they have a disregazd for their obligations, they put the public at risk. If Mr. Terlizzo
wants to have entertauunent there, he has shown that he is willing to serve alcohol in the past and
what would make anyone believe that he wouldn't do it again or hun a blind eye when he sees things
that shouldn't be going on that would put the public at risk. If he wants to have entertainment, he
should also have some type of license to be able to legally serve alcohol. He should have proper
insurance and go through proper procedure so that the public is protected. Mr. Ring stated that he
does not want to see Tom go out business or have things be difficult for him but he does not want to
see the public come up with the short end of the stick by someone who uses the excuse that they
didn't lmow or didn't understand. A business person is supposed to find those things out; that is
their obligarion.
Ms. Thrash agreed with Mr. Ring's comments. Many people have told them that he serves liquor at
this business, but they can't prove it except for the time of her birthday. Mr. Terlizzo also has
entertainment at his establishment on Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays. He's been doing so for over
a year. He caters to weddings, too. His traditional Italian family food is great.
Ms. Moermond stated that she would recess the hearing now to be continued at 3:30 pm, Tuesday,
October 5, 2004.
The hearing was recessed at 2:15 p.m until 3:30 p.m October 5, 2004.
jab
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MINL7TES OF THE CONTINLTATION LEGISLATIVE HEARING
TERLIZZO RESTAiJRt1NT, 821 Raymond Avenue
Tuesday, October 5, 2004
Room 330 Courthouse
Mazcia Moermond, Legislative Hearing Officer
The hearing was called to order at 2:00 p.m.
STAFF PRESENT: Christine Rozek, License, Inspections and Environmental Protection (LIEP)
and Virginia Palmer, City Attorney's Office
OTHERS PRESENT: Joseph Ring, co-owner of J. Ring Glass Studio Inc., 2408 Territorial
Road; Thomas Terlizzo, applicant; Richard Kadrie, applicanYs attorney, 1215 Hawthorne
Avenue East.
Marcia Moermond explained that this is a continuation legislative hearing. The applicant was
unable to make the first hearing a few weeks ago. At the first hearing, Ms. Moermond took
testimony from people who had written letters. This is a contested license issuance hearing.
These are Class N licenses which means the surrounding properties have been notified that the
owner has applied for these licenses. There are three possible outcomes from a normal
legislative hearing: 1) approve the license application without conditions, 2) approve the license
with conditions that the applicant agrees to, 3) send the matter to an Administrative Law Judge
(AL�. There is not a denial at this level. The ALJ process is used if there are conditions that are
necessary to make this a good use, but the applicant will not agree to them. There would be a
public hearing with the ALJ process. That judge would send a recommendation back to the City
Council about the lacense application.
Ms. Moermond continued: letters that the owner received indicated they were selling liquor at
this establishment. At the time of the first hearing, there was testimony to this effect and that
entertainxnent had been going on without licenses. The liquor matter was referred to staff who
said they were working on it. The police department had been contacted. That contact had been
reinitiated based on what we heard at the hearing. Ms. Moerxnond's understanding is that a
police officer went to the restaurant. There is discussion now with the City Attorney's Office
about the adverse action on the license they hold. Ms. Moermond would like a recommendation
from the staff on the Cabaret License. She will not be talking about the adverse action. She
understands a letter has been received by the applicant. Staff withheld their recommendation at
the last hearing pending the outcome of the police investigation.
Christine Rozek reported the application is for a Cabaret License submitted by Tom Terlizzo for
Terlizzo's at 821 Raymond. The Cabaret License allows an establishment that does not sell
liquar to provide entertainment to its customers. At this point, Mr. Rozek's recommendation is
that this is no longer the appropriate license to apply for and it should not be granted.
Ms. Moermond asked does she mean that an entertainment license would be an appropriate
license. Ms. Rozek responded that is correct. If there is alcohol on the premises and the alcohol
is being legally provided, the entertainment license would be appropriate.
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CONTINUATION LEGISLATIVE HEARING FOR TERLIZZO'S, 821 Raymond Avenue Page 2
Ms. Moermond stated the code for entertaimnent versus cabaret licenses speaks to whether or not
a liquor license is held by the establishment. Ms. Rozek responded that is correct.
Ms. Moermond stated it is two different things to serve liquor and to have a license to serve
liquor. The ordinance for the entertainment license talks about having a license.
Richard Kadrie, applicanYs attorney, 1215 Hawthorne Avenue East, asked is the liquor and
beer/wine license the same under the statute for the enterta.imnent license. Ms. Rozek responded
yes.
In light of the report from LIEP, said Mr. Kadrie, they will withdraw the application. Ms.
Moermond responded she would like to give them a few minutes to reflect. She understands they
have agreed that violations have occurred, and the owner is in discussions with the City
Attorney's Office on the penalties. Staff is making that recommendation, but that is not the same
thing as saying the City Council has made that finding.
(The attorney conferred with his client.)
Mr. Kadrie said they will not withdraw and will proceed with this hearing.
Ms. Moermond stated she will talk about the adverse action.
Mr. Kadrie stated that the description of the facts of the matter concerning the adverse matter are
correct: they agreed to the facts asserted by the letter received from Ms. Palmer, City Attorney's
Office.
When LIEP recommends denial of the application, said Ms. Palmer, it seems that Ms. Moermond
is at her third option of sending this matter to an ALJ. The City Attomey's Office has juxnped
one step ahead and sent the notice of violation with the recommendation of denial of the
application. At this point, what is appropriate it to recommend denying the license application
and sending it to an ALJ. That seems the easiest way to clear up the confusion.
Ms. Moermond stated she wanted to make it clear to the owner that if they want to continue
operaUon as a restaurant that provides music, they will need a Cabaret License. She does not
want to make them go through that process again. Ms. Palmer responded it has already been
recommended for denial in the norice of violation. There is an adverse action on the restaurant
license and recommendation for denial of the cabaret license based on the illegal sale of alcohol.
Also, it is not the appropriate license if the owner is going to apply for liquor, which they have
indicated they aze going to do. As a practical matter, it can't be issued with conditions because
the agency is recommending denial and it has to be sent to an ALJ.
Ms. Moermond asked can the Council issue a license with a recommendation of denial from
staff. Ms. Palmer responded they technically could, but it would strike her as unlikely if there is
a recommendation for denial.
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CONTINUATION LEGISLATIVE HEARING FOR TERLIZZO'S, 821 Raymond Avenue Page 3
Ms. Moexmond stated that procedurally it seems the City did not do things correctly to pre-empt
the Council from making any detennination. Ms. Palmer responded this is exactly what would
haue happened because the agency is now recommending denial. At that point, it goes to the
City Council for a recommendation. She is not sure what conditions can make the Cabaret
License appropriate.
Ms. Moermond asked how they intend to operate the business.
Thomas Terlizzo explained that they aze a small restaurant. They had music until someone told
an employee they needed a license. They hired musicians. It is sophisticated vocal jazz. The
music is virtually inaudible outside the windows. Their clientele is 45 to 80 years old. It is quiet
dinner place, family run. There has never been a police call, disruption, or problem. The area is
office buildings warehouses. They would need the jazz music to keep the business going.
Without that attraction, they do not haue a business. There is no impact on the surrounding area
and clientele.
When one of the City employees menfioned the license, said Mr. Terlizzo, it was early in the
spring. They stopped doing music immediately. After they applied for the license, they got a
letter that they were reinstated for music after August 27. They went 130 days without music and
then applied. This is a quiet little lunch and dinner place.
Mr. Kadrie said the report should reflect that there have been no police calls nor any complaints
about noise from the neighbors ar tenants of the building.
Mr. Terlizzo stated they aze only open for dinner and music Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.
After 5:00, there is no one in the area except the patrons.
Joseph Ring, J. Ring Glass Studio, 2408 Temtorial Road, appeared and stated Mr. Terlizzo's
description is true the way he operates the restaurant. There has been no adverse effect of noise
and no trouble of any kind, but that does not address the original complaints.
Ms. Moermond indicated she would issue her recommendation in writing in the near future.
The hearing was adjourned at 3:54 p.m.
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