03-905Council File # /�.3 — 7 � s
Sheet # 3005915
RESOLUTION
CITY OF, SAINT P,AUa, MI
Presented
Refened To
�
Date
BE IT RESOLVED, that the Council of the City of Saint Paul hereby certifies and approves the September 23,
2003, decision of the Legislative Hearing Officer on Appeals for Letters of Deficiency, Correction Notices, and
Correction Orders for the following address:
Propertv Appealed
Apnellant
529 Sherburne Avenue Vaithianathan Nithiananda, owner
Decision: Appeal denied on the Conection Notice dated September 8, 2003.
Yeas Nays Absent
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Coleman �
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Adopted by Council: Date /� � d�
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By:
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By:
Requested by Department oE
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Form Approved by City Attomey
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Approved by Mayor for Submission to Council
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� Green Sheet Csreen Sheet
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Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet Green Sheet
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co -���il Z�EP-03 � Green Sheet NO: 3005915
Coatact Person & Phnne: Deoartment Sent To Person Initial/Date
Marcia Moermond � 0 ouncil
2 ��� � Assign 1
Must Be on Council Agenda by (Date): Number z �
For
Routing 3
Ortler 4 i
5
Total p of Signature Pages _(Clip All Locations for Signature)
Action Requested:
Approve the September 23, 2003, decision of the Legislative Hearing Officer on Appeals of Letters of Deficiency, Conection IQotices,
and Conection Orders for ffie following address: 529 Sherburne Avenue.
Recommendations: Approve (A) or Reject (R): � Personal Service Contracts Must Answer the Following Questions:
Planning Commission 1. Has this personffirtn ever worked under a contrect for this department?
CIB Committee Yes No
Civil Service Commission 2. Has this person/firtn ever Deen a city employee?
Yes No
- 3. Does this personffirm possess a skill not normally possessed 6y a�y
curreM city employee? ,
Yes No
Euplain all yes answers on separete sheet and attach to.green sheet
Initiating Problem, Issues, Opportunity (Who, What, When, Where, Why):
Advantages If Approved:
DisadvanWgeslfApproved: '
c.c.�=i� ,� .
Disadvantages If Not Approved:
SEP 2 � 2003
ToWI Amount of CosNRevenue Budgeted: +..-.-s � �'• � i
Transaction: "°", .^°�°-` �.- f
Funding Source: Activity Number:
Fi nancial Infortnation:
(Explain)
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NOTES OF TI� LEGISLATIVE HEARING
LETTERS OF DEFICIENCY, CORRECTION NOTICES, CORRECTION ORDERS,
FENCE VARIANCES
Tuesday, September 23, 2003
Room 330 City Ha11, 15 Kellogg Boulevazd West
Marcia Moermond, Legislative Hearing Officer
The hearing was called to order at 134 p.m.
STAFF PRESENT: David Kenyon, Office of License, Inspections, Environmental Protection
(LIEP); Dave P. Nelson, LIEP; Thomas Riddering, LIEP
176 Richmond Street (appeal of fence variance denial)
Steve and Michelle Altier, owners, appeazed.
David Kenyon reported that there was a request to build a 42 inch high picket fence with no
regazd for the corner clearance requirement. The legislative code does not allow him to grant this
vaziance for the reason indicated. He recommended to Tom Riddering, Building Official, that
the request be denied.
Marcia Moermond asked what he means by corner cleatance. Mr. Kenyon responded that fences
at the corner of streets can interFere with the vision when cazs pull up. The code requires that
those fences, between the front setback and required side yard setback, cannot be higher than two
feet.
Ms. Moermond asked did they want four feet. Mr. Altier responded 42 inches. Mrs. Altier
added that it is for child protection.
Ms. Moermond asked did they want it to extend a right angle into the corner. Mr. Altier
responded correct.
Ms. Moermond asked aze they flexibie about that. Mr. Alfier responded that they did not know
about the corner clearance necessary until LIEP said something. Their fencing contractor never
said anything until later. Their yazd is limited in size, and they would like to utilize as much of
that space as they can. Cutting the corners would drastically reduce the value of even l�aving a
fenced in yazd. That is why they wanted to go to the corner. Without knowing about a corner
cleazance, the fence they are going to instali would go to the corner. The streets and boulevards
are wide compazed to other ones in the City. It is more than ten feet of clearance in both
directions. He took some photographs and watched where cazs stop at the sign and their
viewpoint going down the street. Also, directly cross the street is a row of hedges that aze about
eight feet tall that overhang the corner for about a foot and a half. Even with that, there is still no
visibility obstruction down the street for traffic.
(Ms. Moermond viewed the photographs.)
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NOTES OF THE LEGISLATIVE HEARING OF SEPTEMBER 23, 2003
Mrs. Altier stated the photographs were taken yesterday.
Page 2
Ms. Moermond stated there are two comers shown in the photograph. Mr. Altier added that it is
an unusual proper[y.
Mr. Altier described each photograph, and said the fence wouid have two inch gaps between the
boazds.
Ms. Moermond stated she called Public Works because they are the right-of-way deparhnent.
She told them she has an application for a fence variance and asked their concerns from a right-
of-way perspective. Don Sobania, Public Works, looked at the property and some of the
neighborhood properties. He said there are a couple of fences in the neighborhood that have a
comer cut. That would decrease the amount of play area. He said the cuts were visually
attractive the way they were landscaped. Shrubs do obscure the view. Ms. Moermond is
inclined to say the shrubs are more of a problem. She asked would they be willing to literally cut
the comers of the fence.
Mr. Kenyon stated they aze in a R-2 zoned azea meaning the owners have a four foot setback on
the side property lines. Their house is the only house on the block. It is back 14'/2 or 15 feet.
They would be gaining four feet at the front which would be sliced back I S feet. He does agree
with them. In reality, they do not create a hardship. He denied it because the code does not
allow him to grant it. Mr. Kenyon said he was there today. If he had the power to grant the
variance, he would because he does not see it as a problem.
Ms. Moermond stated her concem is strictly the corner. Mr. Altier stated if everyone could agree
to cut the corner, they would have no problem with that.
Ms. Moermond asked how much they would normally allow for a fence for side and front yard.
Mr. Kenyon responded the front and side of the house can be up to four feet. The whole thing
has to do with the corner cleazance. The corner cleazance says it has to be down to two feet; if it
is brought back and an angle is cut, then it can remain at four feet.
Ms. Moermond stated she is fine with the four feet all the way around, including the comer cuts,
if thexe is some accommodation made for visibility on the corners. The fifteen foot setback on
the front yard is extreme.
Mr. Altier asked for clarification on the comer cut. Mr. Kenyon responded a little corner wouid
be cut at four feet. Ms. Moermond added that the fence would abut the sidewaik in all the other
places. Mrs. Altier responded that she could work with that.
Ms. Moermond granted the appeal to allow a four foot high picket fence azound the perimeter of
the properry abutting the sidewalk provided that the foliowing is done: the fence remain four feet
back from the southwest and northwest corner property stakes in both directions and would,
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NOTES OF THE LEGISLATIVE HEARING OF SEPTEMBER 23, 2003 Page 3
therefore, be installed diagonally at the comers which would allow visibility for vehicular and
pedestrian traffic.
1883 Cottage Avenue East (appeal of fence variance denial)
James Dorman, 1883 Cottage Avenue East, representing owner Scott Dorman, appeazed.
David P. Neison stated the fence that was installed was in violation of the ordinance. The owner
requested a six foot fence at the east properiy line along the alley. The owners wanted to go six
feet all the way to the front where four feet is aliowed. Mr. Nelson had to deny it because there
was no criteria to look at to say this variance could pass with the ordinances.
Ms. Moermond asked was the fence constructed without a permit. Mr. Nelson responded the
owner applied for a fence variance and started to work on it. There aze three eight foot sections
of fence, but the last section closest to the street was cut down to four feet or built at four feet
high. The last two sections going towazd the house aze at six feet high.
Mr. Dorman stated Scott Dorman made the last couple of feet by the end of the alley low enough
to see. James Dorman stated he does not know what the problem is.
Mr. Neison stated he talked to Scott Dorman. His father was saying the cars pulling into those
yazds aze a nuisance to him as faz as noise. James Dorman added that the those yards are higher
than his dad's.
Mr. Nelson stated the lots aze higher up on the other side of the alley. This is a side ailey. There
is an alley in the back, then a tease, then it goes along the side of the property, too. His concerns
were the sight issue and bringing the fence six feet all the way out to the street. A person cannot
see the intersection there. Although it is not in the corner clearance area, the law says it should
be four feet or less. His idea was to cut it down to eight feet and leave 16 feet going towards the
house into the yazd.
(Mr. Nelson showed a diagram of the azea.)
Ms. Moermond asked for a staff recommendation. Mr. Nelson responded he would like to allow
visual so that when people come through the alley, they can see people on the sidewalk. It is
eight feet now. He is not sure if that is enough. It is more congested because it is right on the
properry line of the alley. There is no other sidewalk or boulevard there.
Ms. Moermond stated she would be happy if there was a corner cut like the previous address
because kids aze under four feet. Mr. Nelson responded that six feet may be too high for those
iwo sections. They can get down to four feet.
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NOTES OF THE LEGISLATIVE HEARING OF SEPTEMBER 23, 2003
Page 4
Ms. Moermond stated that for those two sections, the siac feet should be fine. The variance
should be granted for those secfions. Four feet is too high at the corner. It would obstruct
visibility for someone leaving the alley. Ms. Moermond told James Dorman that he should talk
to his dad about that. He does not need a variance to have it be four feet, but it is something that
could make it safer. She would like to see a comer cut there, but she wili grant the variance on
the two sections of six foot fence. That seems quite reasonable.
Ms. Moermond granted the fence variance to allow two eight foot long sections of the fence
abutting the alley to be six feet in height. These sections may be no closer to the sidewalk than
eight feet in order to preserve visibility for velaiculaz and pedestrian traffic.
529 5herbume Avenue
Vaithianathan Nithiananda, owner, appeared. He showed photographs to Ms. Moermond.
Mazcia Moermond stated she understands that he has talked with Paula Seeley, inspector
(Division of Neighborhood Housing and Properry Improvement). Mr. Nithiananda responded he
was on vacation. He did not speak to her.
Mr. Moermond stated she understands that Public Works removed the chest from the alley. Mr.
Nithiananda responded this is his home. The car is pazked on concrete gravel and not on grass.
Ms. Moermond asked did the inspector say it was a problem or that he needed to correct the tabs
on it. Mr. Nithiananda responded they didn't tell him anything like that. It is not a black
Chevrolet (as listed on the Correction Order); it is a gray Chevrolet.
Ms. Moermond asked when the photographs were taken. Mr. Nithiananda responded just after
he received this Correction Order.
Ms. Moermond stated it looks like the caz is pazked on dirt and grass and not on pavement. Mr.
I3ithiananda responded it is on concrete gravel.
Ms. Moermond asked why he is appealing the correction order. Mr. Nithiananda asked why he
cannot park in the reaz of his house. Ms. Moermond responded that she is not sure if the
inspector looked at this surface cazefully. In the correction order, she says clearly to remove the
black Chevrolet from the grass. It does look like grass in the photograph. There seems to be
plant growth among the graveL Ms. Moermond can see why the inspector did not think this was
a gravel or cement surface.
Ms. Moermond asked has he taken caze of the tall grass and weeds. Mr. Nithiananda responded
there is no grass. It is all taken caze of.
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NOT'ES OF THE LEGISLATIVE HEARING OF SEPTEMBER 23, 2003 Page 5
Ms. Moermond stated there is scattered trash in the alley. Ms. Seeley wanted Ms. Moermond to
mention that the center of the alley back to his house is his responsibility to maintain. That piece
of the alley is his even if trash is dumped there by someone. It would be his job to pick it up. It
seems that he has taken caze of these items already, except for the vehicle. There is disagreement
right now as to whether it is an appropriate surface to pazk on.
Ms. Moermond denied the appeal on the Correction Notice dated September 8, 2003, as the work
has already been done. Public Works removed the chest, the tall grass and weeds aze cut, and the
numbers are on the house. The owner should talk to Ms. Seeley about the surface the caz is
parked on.
(AIl the photographs were rehuned except for one.)
The meeting was adjourned at 2:08 p.m.
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