Loading...
99-6214R�G1NA� co,���i F�e # �- �a� Green Sheet # 64020 PAUL, MINNESOTA Presented Referred To Couunittee Date Z� 1 WHEREAS, the Lzgislative Hearing Officer recommends that license application (ID # 19990002357) for 2 Liquor on Sale (A), Liquor On Sa1e-Sunday, Entertainment (B), Restaurant (B), and Cigarette/Tobacco Licenses 3 by Thomas Williams, General Manager, Grand American Restaurant, DBA The Wild Onion, 788 Grand 4 Avenue, be approved with the following condition: The management of the Wild Onion shall provide security 5 in the parking lots Tuesday through Saturday at baz closing to ensure that the patrons leave the premises and the 6 parking lots without causing a disturbance in the surrounding neighborhoods. Patrons shall be advised of the 7 necessiry of leaving in an orderly manner and shall not be pernutted to loiter outside the baz ar in the parking 8 lots;therefoze be it 9 RESOLVED, that the Council of the City of Saint Paul hereby approves this license with the recoznmended 10 condition. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Yeas Na s Absent Blakey � Coleman � Hazris �/" Senanav � Reiter �/ Bostrom ✓ Lantry ✓� � � 18 Adopted by Council: Date '� �.�, 19 Adopflon Ce fied by Council Secr ary 20 By: ��,� _ � 21 Approved by Mayor: ate �U �`( ��'�l 22 By: Requested by Deparhnent of: � Form Approved by City Attorney � Approved by Mayor for Submission to Council � City Council Gerry Strathman, 266-8575 �T BE ON COUNCIL AGENDA BY fp4TE1 Ju1y 7, 1999 TOTAL # OF SIGNATURE PAGES OATEINfTIATED i June za 1999 I GREEN SHEET No 640 � �.���,� � ��.a. _ ❑ pTYATiOR1EY ❑ CItYCLEl1K ❑ FN4NCNC 9ERVICF9 qR ❑ l�YNGYL tgpV/ACttG ❑ WrOR1atAWfAM1 ❑ (CLIP ALL LOCATIONS FOR SIGNATURE) ROVTING Approving application with condition for Liquor On Sale (A), Liquor On Sale-Sunday, En[ertainment (B), Restaurant (B), and Cigarette/Tobacco Licenses by Thomas Williams, General Manager, Grand American Restaurant, DBA The Wild Onion, 788 Grand Avenue. PLANNING CAMMISSION CIB CAMMITiEE CIVIL SERVICE CAMMISSION IIy37::i•Yitl7 IISOXAlSERYIGE GONTRACSS MIYST 11NSWER 7HE FpLLOWING QUESSIONS: �185 fh15 P2BIXdFlT BVM Npk2C UIIdE! 8 COf1�ldCI (OflFII6 E2P2lITEfli� YES NO Has this peraoMflrm euer been a dty empbYeeY YES NO Does this persoNfirm possess a sldll not normallyposses,sed by any arreM city employee? YES NO Is this person/firm a tarpetetl ventloY! YES NO ilain all ves answere on seoa2te sheet antl attach ro areen sheet �91l7 iim;? � :'s'.: - ,. ..,' i j ..,,:ADL�i �.:. '. ,' _. . ' ... �, t AMOUNT OF TRANSACTION S SOURCE COSTRtEYENUE BUD6E7ED (CIRCLE ONE) VES ACTNIN NUMBER NO (E%PWN) �5�z � MINUTE3 OF TI� LEGTSLAT'IVE HEARING THE R'II,D OIVION, 788 Grand Avenue Monday, June 21, 1999 Room 330 Courthouse Crerry Strathman, Izgislative Hearing Officer STAFF PRESENT: Christine Rozek, License, Inspections, Environmentai Protection (I,IEP) The meeting was called to order at 4:02 pm. Thomas Williams, applicant, appeazed. Gerry Strathman explained that objections were received in writing regarding the issuance of licenses to Great American Restaurant Company, doing business as The Wild Onion. Mr. Strathman will make one of three recommendations to the City Council regarding this license application: 1) approval, 2) approval with conditions, or 3) recommend the matter be sent to an administrative law judge for a complete hearing with respect to law and fact. The City Council is the final decision maker in these matters. Christine Rozek reported this is an application by The Wild Onion to add Thomas Wiiliams' name to the liquor license, Saint Paul Legisiative Code 409 requires that anyone that has at least a 5% interest on a liquor license must be named on that license. There will be no change in the types of licenses held nor in the square footage of the establishment. Elian Biales, Executive Director of the Summit Hiil Association District 16 Planning Council, appeazad and stated she does not have any objections; however, she is here to follow through with some discussion she has had with The Wild Onion throughout the year. In September 1998, the Zoning and Land Use Committee held a meeting on The Wild Onion's expansion. At that time, the Summit Hill Association objected to the upgrade. A number of neighbors were concerned about some of the behavior taking place around The Wild Onion. A follow up meeting was held with The Wild Onion on 7anuary 26. The Wild Onion management agreed to do some things to alleviate the circumstances. What was done, asked Mr. Strathman. Ms. Biales responded the problems were noise in the neighborhood, people being obviously intoxicated, people going through the pazking lot into the alley behind the business. The owners said they would do some landscaping and fencing to keep customers from leaving the pazking lot. The business has started some work on that, but Ms. Biales is unsure if that has taken caze of the problem. The owners have talked about lowering the music levei earlier so that people would not be so revved up coming out of the establishment at 1:00 a.m. They are also trying to do a better job of patroliing their pazking lots to get people into their cars; however, she is not awaze of anything in particulaz they have done. She has received one oz two calls since that January meeting, and has encouraged those neighbors to contact the baz owners. It was suggested that sometimes the owners were not aware of the problems. In one recent case, the bar owners had followed through on a complaint with an employee pazking in the neighborhood and being loud when leaving the business. 5�-c�Z a THE WILD ONION HEARINCT, 788 Grand Avenue, 6-21-99 Page 2 Mr. Strathman read in the record the two letters he received. dne letter is from Debra 7. Asness, 57 Avon Sffeet South #32, who is concerned about the following: patrons making a racket in the streets, bottles broken, gazbage cans smashed, customers wandering into the side streets and alleys, the business serving liquor to already intoxicated customers, refuse, fist fights, noise, and parking in restricted azeas. The other letter is from Catherine Roach, 745 Grand Avenue #305, who is concerned about the following: distributing liquor to the point of intoxicating clients, scantily clad women, patrons allowed to smoke cigazs, loud music, patrons using profanity outside the business, fighting, squealing of ures, defecafing and urinating on properry. Thomas Williams stated he is the additional applicant to the liquor license. The biggest problem is when people leave the establishment. At the last meeting with the Summit Hill Association, several issues were raised. The point of the meeting was to inform The Wild Onion about problems. Now, there is more one-on-one contact with residents. They have come to a lot of resolutions. Some words are used loosely such as "obviously intoxicated," but is taken into consideration. As for pazking, they have contracted with William Mitcheli L,aw School for additional pazking for employees. A Ms. Chappell who lives on Lincoln contacted the Wild Onion about some issues. It was either The Wild Onion customers or customers from the establishment down the sireet, that were coming back at 2:30 a.m. The resident has now said she is satisfied with the result. Under the city ordinance, stated Mr. Strathman, creating a serious disruption to a significant number of people in the community is a basis for denying the license if the business is being operated in an irresponsible way or disrupts the peace of a significant number of people. Although there is no hard information as to the number being disrupted, it does appear that some activities related to The Wild Onion aze disrupting some people. Mr. Strathman asked why security is not effective. Mr. Williams responded they are effective and more have been hired. Security polices the block from end-to-end. 5ince January, they have been effective in expediting peopie from their own lot and the surrounding sidewalk and block. Mr. Strathman asked has he spoken to the letter writers. Mr. Williams responded no. Neither of them were signed in at the association meeting. The City is not going to license an establishment that is seliing to people undez 21 yeazs of age or people obviously intoxicated. The Wild Onion has passed all compliance checks. Would he be agreeable to a requirement on the license about security being provided in the parking lot after closing time, asked Mr. Strathman. Mr. Williams responded he would be 100% in favor of that. Ms. Rozek stated that is not a problem to add to the license, especially since they aze already doing it. Gerry Strathman recommended that the license be approved with the condition that security be provided on the premises at closing to ensure the orderly departure of The Wild dnion customers. The meeting was adjourned at 4:23 p.m. rrn 4R�G1NA� co,���i F�e # �- �a� Green Sheet # 64020 PAUL, MINNESOTA Presented Referred To Couunittee Date Z� 1 WHEREAS, the Lzgislative Hearing Officer recommends that license application (ID # 19990002357) for 2 Liquor on Sale (A), Liquor On Sa1e-Sunday, Entertainment (B), Restaurant (B), and Cigarette/Tobacco Licenses 3 by Thomas Williams, General Manager, Grand American Restaurant, DBA The Wild Onion, 788 Grand 4 Avenue, be approved with the following condition: The management of the Wild Onion shall provide security 5 in the parking lots Tuesday through Saturday at baz closing to ensure that the patrons leave the premises and the 6 parking lots without causing a disturbance in the surrounding neighborhoods. Patrons shall be advised of the 7 necessiry of leaving in an orderly manner and shall not be pernutted to loiter outside the baz ar in the parking 8 lots;therefoze be it 9 RESOLVED, that the Council of the City of Saint Paul hereby approves this license with the recoznmended 10 condition. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Yeas Na s Absent Blakey � Coleman � Hazris �/" Senanav � Reiter �/ Bostrom ✓ Lantry ✓� � � 18 Adopted by Council: Date '� �.�, 19 Adopflon Ce fied by Council Secr ary 20 By: ��,� _ � 21 Approved by Mayor: ate �U �`( ��'�l 22 By: Requested by Deparhnent of: � Form Approved by City Attorney � Approved by Mayor for Submission to Council � City Council Gerry Strathman, 266-8575 �T BE ON COUNCIL AGENDA BY fp4TE1 Ju1y 7, 1999 TOTAL # OF SIGNATURE PAGES OATEINfTIATED i June za 1999 I GREEN SHEET No 640 � �.���,� � ��.a. _ ❑ pTYATiOR1EY ❑ CItYCLEl1K ❑ FN4NCNC 9ERVICF9 qR ❑ l�YNGYL tgpV/ACttG ❑ WrOR1atAWfAM1 ❑ (CLIP ALL LOCATIONS FOR SIGNATURE) ROVTING Approving application with condition for Liquor On Sale (A), Liquor On Sale-Sunday, En[ertainment (B), Restaurant (B), and Cigarette/Tobacco Licenses by Thomas Williams, General Manager, Grand American Restaurant, DBA The Wild Onion, 788 Grand Avenue. PLANNING CAMMISSION CIB CAMMITiEE CIVIL SERVICE CAMMISSION IIy37::i•Yitl7 IISOXAlSERYIGE GONTRACSS MIYST 11NSWER 7HE FpLLOWING QUESSIONS: �185 fh15 P2BIXdFlT BVM Npk2C UIIdE! 8 COf1�ldCI (OflFII6 E2P2lITEfli� YES NO Has this peraoMflrm euer been a dty empbYeeY YES NO Does this persoNfirm possess a sldll not normallyposses,sed by any arreM city employee? YES NO Is this person/firm a tarpetetl ventloY! YES NO ilain all ves answere on seoa2te sheet antl attach ro areen sheet �91l7 iim;? � :'s'.: - ,. ..,' i j ..,,:ADL�i �.:. '. ,' _. . ' ... �, t AMOUNT OF TRANSACTION S SOURCE COSTRtEYENUE BUD6E7ED (CIRCLE ONE) VES ACTNIN NUMBER NO (E%PWN) �5�z � MINUTE3 OF TI� LEGTSLAT'IVE HEARING THE R'II,D OIVION, 788 Grand Avenue Monday, June 21, 1999 Room 330 Courthouse Crerry Strathman, Izgislative Hearing Officer STAFF PRESENT: Christine Rozek, License, Inspections, Environmentai Protection (I,IEP) The meeting was called to order at 4:02 pm. Thomas Williams, applicant, appeazed. Gerry Strathman explained that objections were received in writing regarding the issuance of licenses to Great American Restaurant Company, doing business as The Wild Onion. Mr. Strathman will make one of three recommendations to the City Council regarding this license application: 1) approval, 2) approval with conditions, or 3) recommend the matter be sent to an administrative law judge for a complete hearing with respect to law and fact. The City Council is the final decision maker in these matters. Christine Rozek reported this is an application by The Wild Onion to add Thomas Wiiliams' name to the liquor license, Saint Paul Legisiative Code 409 requires that anyone that has at least a 5% interest on a liquor license must be named on that license. There will be no change in the types of licenses held nor in the square footage of the establishment. Elian Biales, Executive Director of the Summit Hiil Association District 16 Planning Council, appeazad and stated she does not have any objections; however, she is here to follow through with some discussion she has had with The Wild Onion throughout the year. In September 1998, the Zoning and Land Use Committee held a meeting on The Wild Onion's expansion. At that time, the Summit Hill Association objected to the upgrade. A number of neighbors were concerned about some of the behavior taking place around The Wild Onion. A follow up meeting was held with The Wild Onion on 7anuary 26. The Wild Onion management agreed to do some things to alleviate the circumstances. What was done, asked Mr. Strathman. Ms. Biales responded the problems were noise in the neighborhood, people being obviously intoxicated, people going through the pazking lot into the alley behind the business. The owners said they would do some landscaping and fencing to keep customers from leaving the pazking lot. The business has started some work on that, but Ms. Biales is unsure if that has taken caze of the problem. The owners have talked about lowering the music levei earlier so that people would not be so revved up coming out of the establishment at 1:00 a.m. They are also trying to do a better job of patroliing their pazking lots to get people into their cars; however, she is not awaze of anything in particulaz they have done. She has received one oz two calls since that January meeting, and has encouraged those neighbors to contact the baz owners. It was suggested that sometimes the owners were not aware of the problems. In one recent case, the bar owners had followed through on a complaint with an employee pazking in the neighborhood and being loud when leaving the business. 5�-c�Z a THE WILD ONION HEARINCT, 788 Grand Avenue, 6-21-99 Page 2 Mr. Strathman read in the record the two letters he received. dne letter is from Debra 7. Asness, 57 Avon Sffeet South #32, who is concerned about the following: patrons making a racket in the streets, bottles broken, gazbage cans smashed, customers wandering into the side streets and alleys, the business serving liquor to already intoxicated customers, refuse, fist fights, noise, and parking in restricted azeas. The other letter is from Catherine Roach, 745 Grand Avenue #305, who is concerned about the following: distributing liquor to the point of intoxicating clients, scantily clad women, patrons allowed to smoke cigazs, loud music, patrons using profanity outside the business, fighting, squealing of ures, defecafing and urinating on properry. Thomas Williams stated he is the additional applicant to the liquor license. The biggest problem is when people leave the establishment. At the last meeting with the Summit Hill Association, several issues were raised. The point of the meeting was to inform The Wild Onion about problems. Now, there is more one-on-one contact with residents. They have come to a lot of resolutions. Some words are used loosely such as "obviously intoxicated," but is taken into consideration. As for pazking, they have contracted with William Mitcheli L,aw School for additional pazking for employees. A Ms. Chappell who lives on Lincoln contacted the Wild Onion about some issues. It was either The Wild Onion customers or customers from the establishment down the sireet, that were coming back at 2:30 a.m. The resident has now said she is satisfied with the result. Under the city ordinance, stated Mr. Strathman, creating a serious disruption to a significant number of people in the community is a basis for denying the license if the business is being operated in an irresponsible way or disrupts the peace of a significant number of people. Although there is no hard information as to the number being disrupted, it does appear that some activities related to The Wild Onion aze disrupting some people. Mr. Strathman asked why security is not effective. Mr. Williams responded they are effective and more have been hired. Security polices the block from end-to-end. 5ince January, they have been effective in expediting peopie from their own lot and the surrounding sidewalk and block. Mr. Strathman asked has he spoken to the letter writers. Mr. Williams responded no. Neither of them were signed in at the association meeting. The City is not going to license an establishment that is seliing to people undez 21 yeazs of age or people obviously intoxicated. The Wild Onion has passed all compliance checks. Would he be agreeable to a requirement on the license about security being provided in the parking lot after closing time, asked Mr. Strathman. Mr. Williams responded he would be 100% in favor of that. Ms. Rozek stated that is not a problem to add to the license, especially since they aze already doing it. Gerry Strathman recommended that the license be approved with the condition that security be provided on the premises at closing to ensure the orderly departure of The Wild dnion customers. The meeting was adjourned at 4:23 p.m. rrn 4R�G1NA� co,���i F�e # �- �a� Green Sheet # 64020 PAUL, MINNESOTA Presented Referred To Couunittee Date Z� 1 WHEREAS, the Lzgislative Hearing Officer recommends that license application (ID # 19990002357) for 2 Liquor on Sale (A), Liquor On Sa1e-Sunday, Entertainment (B), Restaurant (B), and Cigarette/Tobacco Licenses 3 by Thomas Williams, General Manager, Grand American Restaurant, DBA The Wild Onion, 788 Grand 4 Avenue, be approved with the following condition: The management of the Wild Onion shall provide security 5 in the parking lots Tuesday through Saturday at baz closing to ensure that the patrons leave the premises and the 6 parking lots without causing a disturbance in the surrounding neighborhoods. Patrons shall be advised of the 7 necessiry of leaving in an orderly manner and shall not be pernutted to loiter outside the baz ar in the parking 8 lots;therefoze be it 9 RESOLVED, that the Council of the City of Saint Paul hereby approves this license with the recoznmended 10 condition. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Yeas Na s Absent Blakey � Coleman � Hazris �/" Senanav � Reiter �/ Bostrom ✓ Lantry ✓� � � 18 Adopted by Council: Date '� �.�, 19 Adopflon Ce fied by Council Secr ary 20 By: ��,� _ � 21 Approved by Mayor: ate �U �`( ��'�l 22 By: Requested by Deparhnent of: � Form Approved by City Attorney � Approved by Mayor for Submission to Council � City Council Gerry Strathman, 266-8575 �T BE ON COUNCIL AGENDA BY fp4TE1 Ju1y 7, 1999 TOTAL # OF SIGNATURE PAGES OATEINfTIATED i June za 1999 I GREEN SHEET No 640 � �.���,� � ��.a. _ ❑ pTYATiOR1EY ❑ CItYCLEl1K ❑ FN4NCNC 9ERVICF9 qR ❑ l�YNGYL tgpV/ACttG ❑ WrOR1atAWfAM1 ❑ (CLIP ALL LOCATIONS FOR SIGNATURE) ROVTING Approving application with condition for Liquor On Sale (A), Liquor On Sale-Sunday, En[ertainment (B), Restaurant (B), and Cigarette/Tobacco Licenses by Thomas Williams, General Manager, Grand American Restaurant, DBA The Wild Onion, 788 Grand Avenue. PLANNING CAMMISSION CIB CAMMITiEE CIVIL SERVICE CAMMISSION IIy37::i•Yitl7 IISOXAlSERYIGE GONTRACSS MIYST 11NSWER 7HE FpLLOWING QUESSIONS: �185 fh15 P2BIXdFlT BVM Npk2C UIIdE! 8 COf1�ldCI (OflFII6 E2P2lITEfli� YES NO Has this peraoMflrm euer been a dty empbYeeY YES NO Does this persoNfirm possess a sldll not normallyposses,sed by any arreM city employee? YES NO Is this person/firm a tarpetetl ventloY! YES NO ilain all ves answere on seoa2te sheet antl attach ro areen sheet �91l7 iim;? � :'s'.: - ,. ..,' i j ..,,:ADL�i �.:. '. ,' _. . ' ... �, t AMOUNT OF TRANSACTION S SOURCE COSTRtEYENUE BUD6E7ED (CIRCLE ONE) VES ACTNIN NUMBER NO (E%PWN) �5�z � MINUTE3 OF TI� LEGTSLAT'IVE HEARING THE R'II,D OIVION, 788 Grand Avenue Monday, June 21, 1999 Room 330 Courthouse Crerry Strathman, Izgislative Hearing Officer STAFF PRESENT: Christine Rozek, License, Inspections, Environmentai Protection (I,IEP) The meeting was called to order at 4:02 pm. Thomas Williams, applicant, appeazed. Gerry Strathman explained that objections were received in writing regarding the issuance of licenses to Great American Restaurant Company, doing business as The Wild Onion. Mr. Strathman will make one of three recommendations to the City Council regarding this license application: 1) approval, 2) approval with conditions, or 3) recommend the matter be sent to an administrative law judge for a complete hearing with respect to law and fact. The City Council is the final decision maker in these matters. Christine Rozek reported this is an application by The Wild Onion to add Thomas Wiiliams' name to the liquor license, Saint Paul Legisiative Code 409 requires that anyone that has at least a 5% interest on a liquor license must be named on that license. There will be no change in the types of licenses held nor in the square footage of the establishment. Elian Biales, Executive Director of the Summit Hiil Association District 16 Planning Council, appeazad and stated she does not have any objections; however, she is here to follow through with some discussion she has had with The Wild Onion throughout the year. In September 1998, the Zoning and Land Use Committee held a meeting on The Wild Onion's expansion. At that time, the Summit Hill Association objected to the upgrade. A number of neighbors were concerned about some of the behavior taking place around The Wild Onion. A follow up meeting was held with The Wild Onion on 7anuary 26. The Wild Onion management agreed to do some things to alleviate the circumstances. What was done, asked Mr. Strathman. Ms. Biales responded the problems were noise in the neighborhood, people being obviously intoxicated, people going through the pazking lot into the alley behind the business. The owners said they would do some landscaping and fencing to keep customers from leaving the pazking lot. The business has started some work on that, but Ms. Biales is unsure if that has taken caze of the problem. The owners have talked about lowering the music levei earlier so that people would not be so revved up coming out of the establishment at 1:00 a.m. They are also trying to do a better job of patroliing their pazking lots to get people into their cars; however, she is not awaze of anything in particulaz they have done. She has received one oz two calls since that January meeting, and has encouraged those neighbors to contact the baz owners. It was suggested that sometimes the owners were not aware of the problems. In one recent case, the bar owners had followed through on a complaint with an employee pazking in the neighborhood and being loud when leaving the business. 5�-c�Z a THE WILD ONION HEARINCT, 788 Grand Avenue, 6-21-99 Page 2 Mr. Strathman read in the record the two letters he received. dne letter is from Debra 7. Asness, 57 Avon Sffeet South #32, who is concerned about the following: patrons making a racket in the streets, bottles broken, gazbage cans smashed, customers wandering into the side streets and alleys, the business serving liquor to already intoxicated customers, refuse, fist fights, noise, and parking in restricted azeas. The other letter is from Catherine Roach, 745 Grand Avenue #305, who is concerned about the following: distributing liquor to the point of intoxicating clients, scantily clad women, patrons allowed to smoke cigazs, loud music, patrons using profanity outside the business, fighting, squealing of ures, defecafing and urinating on properry. Thomas Williams stated he is the additional applicant to the liquor license. The biggest problem is when people leave the establishment. At the last meeting with the Summit Hill Association, several issues were raised. The point of the meeting was to inform The Wild Onion about problems. Now, there is more one-on-one contact with residents. They have come to a lot of resolutions. Some words are used loosely such as "obviously intoxicated," but is taken into consideration. As for pazking, they have contracted with William Mitcheli L,aw School for additional pazking for employees. A Ms. Chappell who lives on Lincoln contacted the Wild Onion about some issues. It was either The Wild Onion customers or customers from the establishment down the sireet, that were coming back at 2:30 a.m. The resident has now said she is satisfied with the result. Under the city ordinance, stated Mr. Strathman, creating a serious disruption to a significant number of people in the community is a basis for denying the license if the business is being operated in an irresponsible way or disrupts the peace of a significant number of people. Although there is no hard information as to the number being disrupted, it does appear that some activities related to The Wild Onion aze disrupting some people. Mr. Strathman asked why security is not effective. Mr. Williams responded they are effective and more have been hired. Security polices the block from end-to-end. 5ince January, they have been effective in expediting peopie from their own lot and the surrounding sidewalk and block. Mr. Strathman asked has he spoken to the letter writers. Mr. Williams responded no. Neither of them were signed in at the association meeting. The City is not going to license an establishment that is seliing to people undez 21 yeazs of age or people obviously intoxicated. The Wild Onion has passed all compliance checks. Would he be agreeable to a requirement on the license about security being provided in the parking lot after closing time, asked Mr. Strathman. Mr. Williams responded he would be 100% in favor of that. Ms. Rozek stated that is not a problem to add to the license, especially since they aze already doing it. Gerry Strathman recommended that the license be approved with the condition that security be provided on the premises at closing to ensure the orderly departure of The Wild dnion customers. The meeting was adjourned at 4:23 p.m. rrn